• Kate’s journey into the space of preconception and pregnancy care
• Why mindset becomes important through conception and pregnancy
• The role mindset has in our experience in preconception, pregnancy, and motherhood
• The practicalities of making emotional wellbeing and mindset a powerful tool in your preconception/pregnancy toolkit
• Kate’s experience with miscarriage and her invitation to those who have experienced this type of loss 
• Finding the balance between being informed/knowledgeable and trusting your intuition
• How Kate supports women just like you + why she believes so passionately in the importance of the work she does

Kate Caddle
Life Coach, Speaker, Writer & Creator of “The Awakened Pregnancy Podcast”
https://www.katecaddle.com/

Intro 0:00
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, with your hosts Natalie K. Douglas, Thyroid Healer, and Kate Callaghan, The Holistic Nutritionist. Nat and Kate are degree-qualified dietitians and nutritionists, certified fitness instructors, speakers, and authors. If you love unfiltered banter, unedited bloopers, and authentic heart-sharing, then we are your ladies! Now it’s time to sit back, relax, and get ready for our latest tips on living your healthiest life possible.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:41
In this week’s episode, we have been so lucky to interview the beautiful Kate Caddle. Kate believes that every woman deserves to be empowered and that the container of conception and pregnancy is the perfect conduit for that awakening. She is an award-winning intuitive life coach, speaker, and writer as well as a mama and wife. Through her online space, coaching sessions, learner circles, The Awakened Pregnancy Podcast, and sold-out workshops and speaking events, Kate helps women to see that they can embark on their journey to motherhood without fear, and instead, see it as a time to truly connect to who they are and awaken the gifts within. Kate has 12 years of experience helping women feel incredible in their own skin and five years experience as a working life coach. She’s actively been a part of the transformation of thousands of lives. She’s an advocate for self-care, living gently, and getting super comfortable in your own skin. If she’s not connecting and supporting, you’ll find her exploring with her husband, Michael, and adorable son, Flynn. I really, really enjoyed this chat with Kate. And to be honest, at times, I totally forgot I was even recording a podcast because it really was like talking to an old friend. And as many of you know, I am such a huge advocate of holistic health, and even more so mental and emotional well-being because it has been such a transformative part of my own journey. And I see it time and time again, being an absolutely foundational and pivotal thing in so many of my clients work as well. So I just really enjoyed the opportunity to actually explore this side of preconception care and pregnancy with Kate. And I’m really excited for you to get to enjoy the same. So let’s jump in. Kate, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited to have you here and to jump into all of these really exciting questions. And actually, I was saying to you just before we hit record that Kate and I, the other Kate, we haven’t had an exclusive podcast talking about very much the mindset side and emotional well-being side of preconception care of pregnancy. So it’s really exciting.

Kate Caddle 3:13
I’m excited too. Thank you so much for having me here. And I was actually yeah, I was reflecting through the questions before I jumped on and I yeah, I can’t wait to answer them. This is definitely my zone and I think it’s so important and something that does get skipped over. So I’m really excited to be sharing it as well.

Natalie K. Douglas 3:30
Yes, I agree. It really does get skipped over but hopefully, we will help turn that around a little bit today. Before we jump into those questions, we always love to ask our guests the same question just because I’m obsessed with morning routines. And this might look a little bit different for you at the moment because as we are recording this, it’s still somewhat of a lockdown situation here in Australia but what is your current morning routine?

Kate Caddle 3:56
So it definitely does change. And for me personally, my morning routine hasn’t really been affected by the Iso life. My husband still has his job, which we’re obviously very very grateful for. And my son doesn’t actually go to childcare, he spends time with my mom. So our routine really hasn’t changed. But when I say it changes, that’s because I have a toddler, and he has a mind of his own as they do. But my ideal morning routine and when I nail it, I wake up, I use my tongue scraper, I jump back into bed. I am a meditator. So I do my morning meditation. After that, I pull some angel cards, and then I’ll write in my journal. But that doesn’t always happen or unfold in that way. And I mean, it’s not necessarily a time thing, it’s just if my son wakes up, it’s kind of glory time, but I do incorporate at least one or two of those things every single morning. And yeah, they’re kind of they’re kind of the things that just set me up for the day and then after that, I’ll usually make a herbal tea and then Flynn is usually by then, and it’s time to play Lego and have breakfast and all of those kinds of fun things.

Natalie K. Douglas 5:07
Oh, I love it. I love. I love a good morning routine. And I think it’s so important to be flexible with it, especially when you’ve got kids. Because if you create this big long list of things you have to do in order to feel like you’ve successfully started your day, it’s probably not going to happen to too often when you’ve got a little person that is active and not necessarily going to wake up every single day at the same time in the same mood. So I love that. I love that.

Kate Caddle 5:35
Absolutely. Yeah, and I think I just wanted to add something on that to my approach to my morning routine before I had my son was a lot more about taking off all of the things. Like I obviously enjoyed them, but I wanted to make sure I got through everything. Whereas now it’s more about how or what can I do to get myself into the emotional state that I want to be in. So sometimes that is to meditate, sometimes it’s to go for a walk, sometimes it’s just three deep breaths, and it transforms like I transform internally. That’s my focus now as far as the achievement, it’s not about ticking the box, it’s how can I shift my energy to be in the state that I need to be in.

Natalie K. Douglas 6:12
And do you feel like becoming more in tune with yourself allows you to tap into what you actually need, instead of what is just on that list?

Kate Caddle 6:23
A 100%.

Natalie K. Douglas 6:24
Yeah, I found that too, myself, because I used to be very much like a, here’s my list, I must get through it. And then I can feel like I am in alignment and I am good to go. And now, I think same, same deal. It’s more, waking up and taking a moment to be like, what what do I actually need today, and mine very much changes with my menstrual cycle. Like, when I’m in the first half of my cycle, I’m all about getting up and moving my body. And the second half, I’m more about, you know, sitting in meditation or moving more slowly or starting more slowly. And I really love that I’m able to do that now. I think it’s, it makes morning routine so much less stressful, because I think when you put too many expectations on what it has to look like, it ends up being counteractive to what you’re trying to achieve, which is, as you alluded to, like it’s it’s a state of being and away to start your day.

Kate Caddle 7:24
Yeah, I could not agree more.

Natalie K. Douglas
I love it. Well, we could do, we could do a whole podcast to that morning routine.

Kate Caddle 7:30
We could.

Natalie K. Douglas 7:32
But we won’t. I really want to hear a little bit more about how you actually landed in working in this space and why you’re so passionate about it because I can hear it in the way you talk. You have a podcast yourself, which is filled with so much amazing information. And I can see that it’s very much something that is just lights you up. And I love hearing about how that actually evolved. So can you walk us through that journey a little bit?

Kate Caddle 7:58
Yeah, for sure. And I think, whenever I think about this, and I’m sure you can relate, when someone asked me about my story, I’m like, where do I start? It started when I was born.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Caddle
I won’t go that far back.

Natalie K. Douglas
Thank you.

Kate Caddle
But I think the essence of what I’m about and why I’m why I am here. And what my purpose is in this lifetime, I believe it’s to empower women. And that has looked different at different points in my life as far as the mechanism for how I do that and how I support that. But I think through my own experience, I’ve gone more into this space, or I have, I’ve gone more into this space of supporting women through preconception and pregnancy to kind of give you a little bit of an idea of how that happened. I have and I say that term very loosely have endometriosis. And I discovered that in a emergency room after eight hours of excruciating pain and being told everything from your ovulating to you’ve got cancer. It was ridiculous.

Natalie K. Douglas
It’s a bit of a broad spectrum.

Kate Caddle
Oh my goodness, it was it was a comedy of errors, but it wasn’t funny. But anyway, basically they said, look, we think that you have endometriosis and you have a 10-centimeter ovarian cyst on your left ovary and that’s what the pain is. It’s rupturing and we need to do emergency surgery. And I really didn’t know anything about endo at the time. I knew that my auntie had it and that was about it. And my husband and I had gotten engaged two weeks prior and it just it was a really scary time and anybody who’s listening who has had any type of diagnosis where you really don’t know what it is, it is scary. And I went in for the surgery and they took out the cyst and there from their reports the endo was like rife, it was all through my abdomen and with the cyst. They took half of my left ovary or quite a big portion of my left ovary. And so here I was, we just gotten engaged on cloud nine. And then I was like, what does this mean about our future? Are we going to be able to have children? What does this look like? And I, at that point in my life, I was very much somebody who suppressed how I was feeling. And I definitely chose that option and threw myself into the wedding planning. And it wasn’t until after we got married, that we decided, okay, we’d love to have children, let’s start trying and see what happens. And five years down the track after IVF and miscarriage, and many many months where I was not pregnant, we did conceive our little boy, but that time in my life, I went through massive massive growth. So, you know, I went from this high achieving person who suppressed my emotions, and so was always showing up to everyone else, and not really caring for myself to learning the importance of what it actually means to truly care for myself on every level, and how impactful that can be for my whole well-being that it wasn’t just about my emotional health, but rather that when I remove all of those stresses from my life, you know, like overdoing things, you know, showing up for everyone else and not showing up for myself. And when I removed to those stresses it had such a massive impact on my emotional well-being, but also my physical well-being. So I went through this crazy journey through this five years, and obviously, my beautiful husband was by my side. And we, you know, we had IVF attempts were fairly dismal, there wasn’t really anything positive about them at the first attempt they, so the first egg collection, they got, I think it was six eggs and two of them ended up being viable. We transferred one on the month where we’ve done the collection. So it wasn’t, I can’t remember what the terminology is, it wasn’t a frozen cycle. It was, you know.

Natalie K. Douglas 11:54
Yeah, yep.

Kate Caddle 11:56
And that one didn’t take. And then the following, actually, I think was two months later, we did the frozen cycle and I fell and then miscarried very early. And after that, I had adrenal fatigue, I’ve had adrenal fatigue twice, I’ve had a lot of gut issues. It was basically, it just kept of getting more and more complex, and more and more challenging. And after the next attempt, where we did a egg collection they got one viable egg transferred, and it didn’t take, and again, I had adrenal fatigue. My husband and I were like, look, that’s it, we’re done. Like I was, I was like, I’m not doing this to my body anymore. And I’d really come to a place where I respected my body so much that I just, it just didn’t feel like it was worth it to completely, you know, drive myself into the ground health-wise. So it actually felt like a really great decision and really relieving for both my husband and I. And I think we’d put off making that choice for quite some time. And I thought, okay, let’s just take six months, completely put this time into rebuilding my health. I’m going to do all the things, we’re going to make it work, and I’m just going to get myself back to feeling great. And then we’ll reassess like, we’ll decide what our next steps are, knowing that it wasn’t going to be IVF. And so in that time, I worked with a coach and I did my yoga teacher training. And I saw some naturopaths, who were able to help me get back on track. I found a beautiful medical doctor here who helped diagnose a couple of underlying conditions that I had. And basically, and probably not surprisingly, six months later, I felt amazing. I felt the healthiest I’d ever felt. I had so much energy, my skin had cleared out, my hair had stopped falling out. I just I felt amazing. And I mean, I did kind of share this before the beautiful happy ending to this story is that I fell pregnant naturally, which was a complete surprise. And I didn’t believe it. And I went on to have a beautiful pregnancy and birth and an amazing breastfeeding experience with our little boy but I truly believe that if it wasn’t for me making that decision to put myself and my well being and my health first then that would have absolutely never happened, you know, all of the evidence was pointing to, no, this cannot happen from the medical point of view. And then obviously, alongside all of this, I was having so much growth myself and I was becoming so passionate about helping women see that when we feel so out of control through this conception journey. If this is something that you’re navigating to, that we can actually take our control back, but it’s not by controlling the external circumstances, it’s by controlling how we care for ourselves and what our internal world looks like. So I was a coach at the time, but I have just gone more specifically into this area because I can see there’s such a need for women to realize that this journey to becoming a mother whether you have fertility concerns or not, is an invitation for us to grow into the incredible women that we are and without the proper support. We miss out on that opportunity. And we also potentially go in the other direction. And yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s kind of the, that’s the crux of it. I really truly care about empowering women and I believe that preconception pregnancy and that early stage of motherhood are the most beautiful invitation and rite of passage to truly come into who we are as women. And that’s, that’s why I do what I do.

Natalie K. Douglas 15:26
I love that so much. And I have like, a billion questions from everything you shared because I think it’s, I mean, maybe I’m projecting but was there a, was there a time in that journey where you felt disconnected from your physical body or angry at your body, or was there any element of that, when especially when you first got diagnosed, so to speak with with endo, and we’re going through that and then having to go through IVF and that not holding? Was there any element of that for you?

Kate Caddle 16:01
Do you know, I actually feel like that had been underlying, maybe my whole life. And it wasn’t until going through that experience, I realized that it was there. So what I mean is, like, through my teenage years, I had, like, body love issues, you know, like, there was parts of my body, I used to always criticize about myself and I was insecure. And then that just developed further into this disconnect from my body. And anger has absolutely been something that has come up. And I hear this a lot in my clients that I speak to who have endo and PCOS. That one of the dominant emotions that we feel is anger around those circumstances. And if you think about our childhood, as women in, you know, in this society, we’re taught that it’s not okay to be angry. And so you know, if there’s something happening inside of your body, and this was absolutely my experience, so I was really disappointed in my body. And I felt angry and frustrated at the situation but I also felt a lot of shame for the fact that I felt that. And so it was like this double suppression of emotions. It was like this rising anger that I was suppressing with shame and so it only perpetuates the issue. So yeah, I definitely, definitely had that experience of a disconnect from my body. And that it wasn’t until I looked at this with kind of critical thinking eyes that I was able to see. Okay, wow, I’ve had this for a long time. This isn’t something that just came as a result of the endo.

Natalie K. Douglas 17:34
Yeah, I, I resonate with that a lot. I think on both like a personal and also professional level with with working with people. I think I have a similar history in the way of growing up with actually quite a few eating disorders and I have endometriosis and I definitely have experienced a lot of that disconnect and shame around around the anger that that has come up in relation to my body. And I think it’s it’s super common, like whether it is part of a fertility struggle or part of a health struggle. I often see a lot of my clients, like struggling their way through it from a point of I just have to mind over a matter this this change in my physical body. And for me, personally, I actually think the only way I’ve been able to heal any of my health issues, and the way that I very much see healing happening most effectively is is not necessarily that way. I think it comes from addressing that stored trauma, those stored emotions wherever they are in the body, and actually trying to connect back in because I am super passionate about the fact that I think we know our bodies best but so so much of what we’re surrounded by is constantly pulling us outside of our body to seek answers from someone else, from something else. And it’s tempting because it’s much easier than really doing that work of unraveling a lot of that stuff. I think that’s really fascinating. And I, I hear you in terms of it being a common theme with, with women and with endo in particular, it’s it’s super interesting. I actually want to move on a little bit further here because I could talk about, I’m a Leo so I could probably talk about my story for the whole podcast, let’s be honest, but I won’t, because many of the listeners have heard bits and pieces of it before. I’m actually really curious to explore a little bit more in-depth why you actually believe that mindset becomes almost like more important, you know, through conception and pregnancy when perhaps it hasn’t necessarily been something that is a consideration beforehand. Like, why is it that it should or is more important?

Kate Caddle 20:10
Yeah, I think this kind of builds from what I was saying before about this picture that society paints for us as women. So like what I was saying before around emotions, and that we’re taught to suppress our emotions, were also subliminally, and sometimes, you know, very very much even more so than that. We’re taught that in order to have happiness, we need to follow a certain mold. So for example, it might look like finished school, study, get a good career, meet somebody that you love, buy a house, get married, have children, happily ever after. And whether we acknowledge that or not, so many of us are living by that program. So we we set out to achieve that. And this is absolutely what I was doing without acknowledging it. Because for many of us, we’re not actually living with that state of intention of, you know, knowing exactly why we do the things that we do. So if you can imagine, we’ve got this kind of, you know, this blueprint of happiness that we have decided, at some point in our childhood, and we follow that. And it’s when something doesn’t add up with that. So when something doesn’t tick the box in order to that plan, it’s where we feel like everything’s being derailed. And this concept teaches us that we must control everything around us in order to be happy, but I actually believe in fact that we’re never truly in control of the things happening around us. It’s rather that we feel like we’re in control when life tilts in favor of our preferences. And so it’s when it doesn’t tilt in favor, that we go, oh my God, like everything’s hit the fan like, this isn’t working. And that’s when we get frustrated and angry and we experience all of those things because we feel like we’re out of control. So I believe that for women, or for a lot of women, motherhood becomes a journey of unraveling those stories. And whether it is, you know, a challenging conception, or a bit of a crazy pregnancy, or the ups and downs and craziness of motherhood. I believe that we have given this invitation to grow into more of who we are, which is what I was saying before. But for many of us, when we don’t have the skillset or the support, we don’t actually take that opportunity. So I believe that women are beginning to see more clearly now that we must care for ourselves, right? Like, I think that that’s fairly common that we can see as women, our self-care matters. But like we were saying, at the beginning of our conversation, this topic is often at more of a physical level. So we exercise, we eat the right foods, we support our bodies, we take our supplements but one of the biggest areas I believe that gets missed and forgotten is our mental health and our mindset. And without that we cannot function. So I’m certain that the women who listen to your podcast are aware that prevention, as far as a long-term health strategy is imperative. But I think that, yeah, and I think that having like a crisis management view of health is very short term, and very limited. And it doesn’t support the big picture. So, you know, when it comes to our mental health, I think we need to look at this in the same way. So we need to look at our mindset, as how can I be creating a long-term strategy here for my mindset, not something that is just, you know, a crisis, when a crisis occurs, then I will get support. So I think that for many women, this journey into motherhood, no matter what stage it’s at, that it kind of just comes to the surface. But we’re given this invitation to go deeper into what it means to be in surrender and to be trusting the process and trusting ourselves. So I don’t know if I really answered the question there or if I’ve kind of gone off a little bit, but I think at the end of the day, conception and pregnancy are a massive shift in a woman’s life, whether it is the first child or the fifth, it doesn’t matter. We go through changes and growth on an internal level every single time we birth a soul into this world. And I think we can either look at that as an opportunity for growth, or we can just add that into the to do-list on other things that we’re, you know, that we’re doing in our lives. Yeah, but I think if we kind of look at it from the point of view of how can I support myself now in order to glide through that time, in the most, you know, a graceful and easeful way that I possibly can. Because in our most challenging times, and they come, right? It’s inevitable that we will have challenging moments in life. We don’t feel resourceful. Like if you can think of a time where you were, you know, where you were really having a hard time, chances are you were not resourceful and, you know, saying to yourself, okay, I feel really crappy today. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to get up, I’m going to meditate, I’m going to make myself a cold-pressed juice, I’m going to go do some yoga. Like, we don’t support ourselves in that way when we’re in a down moment. So I believe that if you’re kind of feeling good or somewhere, you know, above the line, so to speak, then now is the time to implement the practices that support you when life does all the things that it does. Yeah, that’s kind of a long-winded answer.

Natalie K. Douglas 25:20
No. I really, I really like that, because I think that it’s, I mean, I haven’t experienced pregnancy or birth or having children yet. However, I can definitely from working with so many women that have and just having lots of friends who have, you know, it’s something. It’s a journey that you, you have to surrender because there’s so much so much happening in in you physically and mentally and emotionally. And I think that even being a mom, I mean, it’s my mom always says to me, because I was a very impatient teenager and in early 20s person she was like, well, having kids will teach you flexibility and teach you patience, and teach you that not everything is going to get ticked off or be on plan. And it’s almost like, I see, I see that in a lot of my clients, and my friends. I see that the people who have this, like resilience, a cushion of resources and, and boundaries and healthy boundaries, cope so much better and have a better experience through, through preconception, through pregnancy, and through motherhood as well. And I think you’re totally right, it’s, it’s the time to do it is when you are feeling well because it takes less energy to implement those kind of strategies when you’re in a positive headspace than it does to try and scramble to implement them when you’re feeling completely shit and all you want to do is reach for something that is a distraction, like overeating the wrong things, or scrolling Instagram, and there’s, you know, we’re all human and I still do both of those things occasionally, but it’s, I think it’s really important as you’re saying to develop that because I guess what that leads into or what I’m kind of alluding to is very much that your your mindset does influence your experience. And I feel like, you know, the question we’re gonna chat about here is, is kind of like, what role, what role mindset has in shifting experience and how it can affect the outcome at the end of the day. But I feel like, we’ve kind of touched on that. Do you, do you like, does that resonate with you in terms of doing that work makes the journey more enjoyable, or more.

Kate Caddle 27:52
Totally. I think that’s a really big point around this is we get to choose, right? And I mean, like, it’s so cliche, but I’m a life coach, so I get to say it, but it’s about the journey, not the destination. And so if we are completely focused on our number one goal being for example, if you’re in the conception stage, getting the baby or if you’re pregnant, you know, having the birth that you desire. If your focus is completely on that outcome, we miss out on the joy, like we delay our happiness. And often when we’re delaying our happiness, we’re actually in a state of suffering. So it might not look like you know, what we paint the picture of suffering to look like. But I mean, to give you a little bit of an idea of what that can be. You know, suffering might be that you have a challenging relationship with yourself, you feel stressed in some way, every single day, you’re incredibly fatigued, you feel like you’re in the daily grind, or you use use words like, you know, oh it’s just so hard, or life’s just so busy, or I’m just really tired. Like that type of language is an indicator that you are in a state of suffering. If you’re not feeling happiness, lightness, and joy at some point throughout your day, most days, you are likely delaying your happiness for a future goal. So you know that it’s it’s such a subtle shift, right? I’m not saying don’t focus on the outcome. It’s just don’t make that your driver, don’t make that outcome your drive, because it becomes so conditional. It’s like, if I don’t get XYZ, then I don’t get to be happy like we punish ourselves. And it’s crazy. It’s absolutely crazy that we would do that. And then to kind of flip it over, like from a science perspective, we all know that stress impacts our body and the way that it functions and you would be able to share so much more on this than I can, but we know that emotional and physical stress have an impact on our body. And so, if we are in a state of suffering, we are in a state of stress on some level. So you know, there is the the part of it that is like why not just enjoy our lives now, that is that kind of emotional and more or less tangible thing that we can focus on. But there is a part of it that is, that’s, you know, we know that stress impacts our body in the way that it functions. And stress is such a massive issue when it comes to conception for so many women. So just that alone, I believe, is enough motivation to go hang on a second, how can I bring more happiness, lightness, and joy into my day, every day? And how can I decide to make this a priority? Because it matters. Like it matters that you’re happy now. I’m not about waiting for one day, like I wore a kimono today, and I’m in isolation, because I’m like, you know what? I’m gonna wear the kimono today.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:39
Because I deserve to wear my kimono.

Kate Caddle
Exactly.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:43
I love it. Yeah. No, I, I really, I love that. And I, I think the thing that comes up for me is, I’m wondering what, like how you were able to hold that process when you had experienced miscarriage. So what I mean by that a lot of my patients who have or clients, I don’t like calling them patients, because I feel like clients is more empowering.

Kate Caddle
Yes.

Natalie K. Douglas
So my clients who have miscarried before and then do fall pregnant. It’s almost like they can’t give themselves permission to fully embody that pregnancy because they’re fearful of the loss. How did you navigate that or how would you help someone navigate that because I think it’s a really, like I fully understand where they’re coming from. And I also think that focusing on the potential loss takes away from the journey and in and pulls you out of your physical body as well.

Kate Caddle 31:49
Absolutely, I think I want to start by answering this question by validating those feelings. And that is perfectly okay to feel that way. And, in fact, it’s perfectly normal to be fearful of that experience, when you have felt that intense pain of loss because it is excruciating. And I think that, you know, we could talk about miscarriage and loss so much, as well. But I think for many of us, there is shame attached to that as well. And it is a traumatic time, it is trauma, the loss is trauma. And when we experienced pregnancy, again, which is fantastic, it is very real, that those fears come back and it becomes it can become like a trigger. And I think it’s so important, firstly, to acknowledge how you feel, and allow yourself to feel scared, or nervous, or fearful, or whatever it is that’s resonating for you. I think we really need to allow ourselves to feel that and not suppress it. When it comes to emotions they, they’re all created equal. So every single emotion is designed to rise and full. But it’s the grasping at it, whether we want to keep it because we like it, or we want to push it away because we don’t like it, that creates that stagnation in our energy. So if you’re trying to push away or suppress those feelings, or you’re trying to hold on to them as a protective mechanism, you’re stopping that natural flow of energy. So even just kind of having that visual visualization of just allowing it to flow through you, like how can I allow this wave of emotion to just flow through me, and being aware that these things will come and go, so the pain won’t stay forever, nor will I in the highest height of joy, they are all flowing and are moving. So just having that awareness can be really empowering, as these things rise. But as far as allowing yourself to feel the joy and to continue to, you know, move through that pregnancy. You know, in in the way that you deserve to write because you deserve to enjoy that beautiful gift of this little human that is growing inside of you, even if you have experienced loss before. So you know, first of all, I think definitely validate how you feel, have radical self-awareness of what those feelings are, and nurture yourself and allow yourself to feel them. And then the next thing is you get to decide whether you want to be courageous, or whether you do want to stay inside that perceived because it is a perceived protective barrier. And I know this is hard, and I know that it’s scary. There is absolutely no doubt about that but you get to choose and I think that when you look at it from that point of view of I don’t have to be a victim of this circumstance. I can choose how I want to feel and the path I want to pursue right now. Whether that is you know, keeping myself protected, or whether I do want to be courageous here. And you get, you get to go with that like that is your choice and that is in your power. So when I’m talking about being courageous I’m talking about allowing yourself to feel joy, even if it is just a tiny moment of joy each day just allowing yourself to connect to that more and more, because the alternative is back into that state of suffering. And if you have been through this experience of loss before, it doesn’t, you know this, it doesn’t matter how much you allow yourself or force yourself to suffer the maybe outcome of loss. Again, it doesn’t protect you from the pain if it does happen. It doesn’t make it any less painful. And I think that we get to choose, you know, do I want to suffer through this for a potential maybe outcome or do I just want to let myself feel how incredible this is, and how grateful I am for this little life and put all my love and hope and the best energy that I can into this experience, and cross my frickin fingers that this works. And it’s hard. Like, I really want to say that this is hard but we get to choose, and if you want extra resources around this, Brené Brown speaks so beautifully about. I mean, everyone probably knows about Brené Brown by now. She’s so amazing. But she speaks so beautifully about not being able to be courageous without vulnerability. And so, there’s a beautiful I think, it’s called The Gifts of Imperfection. I think it’s a beautiful book on that topic, if anyone’s like, okay, I really want to embrace this, this way of approaching it.

Natalie K. Douglas 36:26
Yes, I love that book. And I love her. She’s fantastic. And I, I really, I really feel like something to remind people of that I can imagine is important is that it’s it’s a choice you can make every day or in every moment in terms of it. I could imagine that it’s there’s many moments where it’s difficult to make that choice and perhaps you fall back into that victim mindset or the more suffering. And also it’s, it’s great that you have an awareness that you can make a different choice and you can choose courage and that it’s okay if you don’t get that choice right all the time through that whole journey because it is a journey. And I think as, as humans, we want to protect ourselves in so many different ways. And it is hard to be courageous and vulnerable. And they come together, as you were just saying, and also, it’s, it’s worth it in a lot of senses because, as you said, if you know, touchwood, the loss happens, whether you’ve allowed yourself to enjoy the pregnancy and be present with it, or whether you have expected and anticipated the loss. It doesn’t hurt any less. It just takes away from the moments where you could have felt joy or even just contentment and not fear. But I think, yeah, I really I hear you in terms of validating those women who are like, well, you know, it’s bloody hard because it would be it would be incredibly difficult. And I really love the feeling at peace as well, because I love that saying, you’ve got to feel, you’ve got to feel it to heal it. I’m a big, a big fan of that. And I actually really, like, I don’t know if you do this, this too Kate. But whenever I’ve been healing past traumas, I talked to, I talked to it, like I talked to that feeling, or I talked to that person I was in the moment when I was going through that trauma, and hold that version of myself, and sit with that version of myself, and allow space for that to be processed. And I give it names, I give it feelings, I give it colors, I identify where it is in my body and visualize it. And that really helps me to be able to make a safe space for it to exist, and also let go and move through me. And I find that so helpful to do.

Kate Caddle 2:23
That’s such a beautiful practice, I actually, I’m a big journaler, and I write letters to myself or like to past versions of myself. And I also use that beautiful technique of going into a meditation and visiting myself in that time with what I needed them that I didn’t get at that time. So as far as like compassion or the words that I really wanted to hear. But I also wanted to come back to like back to this topic, and I kind of got thinking about it while you were speaking. When, when we go through this experience of motherhood, actually, it’s just life, right? There is always an opportunity for us to choose to be fearful, to choose to be in that state of fear and protection, and I think with motherhood, I know my conception journey, I was always like, I just need to get pregnant, like once I’m pregnant, like it will be all good. But that’s not the case, like you fall pregnant, and then you’re in the first 12 weeks and you’re like, oh my god, I just need to get through the first 12 weeks. And then you’re in the second trimester, and you’re like, oh my god, I just want to get to the end. And then you get to the end, you’re like, I just want to have the baby. And then the baby comes in, you’re like, oh no, like, now I have to watch the baby when they.

Natalie K. Douglas
I just need to keep it alive.

Kate Caddle
Like, exactly. And so if we can break this habit, ASAP, and choose to be in that state of courageous surrender a little bit more often. And like you said, this is moment to moment. It’s not like you make this decision once and then and I feel like I needed to say that because we don’t decide once. I’m going to be vulnerable and courageous. And we never have to make that decision again, it is moment to moment, because we’re reprogramming past patterns that we’ve been doing for years. So I think having the awareness that you can choose fear, and that is perfectly okay. I’m not saying this from a point of judgment but is there going to be a point where you decide that you don’t want to choose fear anymore, and could that be now? So, yeah, I think I think it’s a lesson that I’m really glad that I learnt before I became a mother because it meant that when I had a newborn, and I was transitioning into what life looks like as a mother, that I was able to really trust myself in a deeper way than I have ever before. And, you know, that really supported me with that transition into that stage of life where you do become responsible for another human being and suddenly your choices don’t just impact you. So, you know, it’s again, it’s an invitation and you get to choose. Again, no judgment, you get to choose which path you want to take, but just be clear to yourself about what each of them look like, and also what they’re, you know what the likely outcome is of each of those scenarios.

Natalie K. Douglas 5:08
And I really feel like practice helps, like, practice makes perfect in a sense, like, I feel like, unless you read, like repeatedly make that choice, it’s or I should say, when you repeatedly make that choice, I feel like it becomes easier as the same experience for me. Like, I used to have this really harsh inner critic that would be like, particularly relating to body image issues, for example, because it was a big theme in my, in my life. And they used to be this really loud, annoying, very dominant voice in my head, that was very hypocritical. And I just wanted it to go away, and it never just went away. And people ask me all the time, how did you, how did you get over that, or how did you stop those thoughts? And the truth is that those thoughts don’t necessarily stop, they just become whispers, because you’ve actually built up this much more compassionate, courageous, vulnerable voice in your in your head. It almost feels nurturing like a motherly voice to me that’s like, you know, like validates me like, sweetheart, it’s okay that you feel that way. I hear you and also, why don’t we be kind to us or like, why don’t we, like why don’t we choose a different option here? What might that look like? And how might you feel if you make that choice? So I really think that if you’re someone who’s like, I can’t do that. I’m just, I’ve always been hard on myself. I’m, I’m too hard on myself. Know that most people are like that is natural.

Kate Caddle 6:50
Absolutely.

Natalie K. Douglas 6:51
Like, that is the natural thing. And as Kate and I are speaking here, I mean, Kate, I can’t speak for you but I know I’ve been that person that’s like, oh, no, like, no way can I do that.

Kate Caddle
Absolutely.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, yeah. You’re like. Oh, yeah.

Kate Caddle 7:08
Yes, definitely. I think the thing to remember around this, and this goes back to what you were saying before that, in a lot of times, in a lot of places, we do believe that the answer is outside of us, we all are born with those two voices, like the devil and the angel, you know, like, we are all born with both of those. But human conditioning means that the voice that isn’t so kind, the volume is loud. And the other one is really quiet. And it’s like these tiny little whispers of like, Nat, you’re amazing. But then the other ones like, no, you’re not, you’re exalted. And then, so the little voice is like, okay, fine. I feel like it’s about realizing it’s already inside of you, this isn’t something that, you know, I was gracefully gifted with. And you were like, we all have both of these, it’s just about which voice you want to give more power to. And it is that consistent making a different choice, like, our brain has these neural pathways that I kind of visualize like a forest. And so if we keep walking the same pathway, which we usually have until a point like now where you’re like, okay, I have more information I want to do this differently. Every time we walk that pathway, it goes from being like this, you know, crazy bush where you have to like cut through to get, you know, get past everything to like a two-lane highway, where it’s like, so built through that it’s just so easy for your brain to go that way. And then the new pathway, it’s like this dense forest that you’re like, okay, I’m gonna have to bring my machete to make way.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Caddle
And so, having that awareness that, okay, I’m just every time I make this choice, this pathway is just going to get a little bit more clear, a little bit easier to go down, and it’s going to overtime, this gradual baby step that I take is actually going to have a really big impact. So I could not agree with you more in the fact that we all have the ability to do this. It takes a commitment and a decision, and this is what I was talking about before with having this long term plan for your mental health. It’s not just about, I’m just going to deal with a problem when it rises. It’s like how can I continue to support myself long term so that every single time I’m faced with a challenge I don’t become this bitter and twisted old woman that instead I grow and expand and become more amazing over my lifetime.

Natalie K. Douglas 9:34
Yes. Yep. I really, I think it’s one of, I actually think as even as a nutritionist to spend a lot of time talking about food. I think that emotional health, and mental health, and also sleep is the most important thing in a healing journey. I think there are, to be honest, so many different ways that and so many different diets that can help play a part in that. I think it’s an entry point for a lot of people. But I see that people that really deep dive into that emotional well-being, unraveling past traumas courageously and compassionately, the ones that actually get the most experience the most freedom and, and feeling of confidence and comfort and just contentment in their body and in their mind. And that’s essentially what I feel like a lot of us are chasing when we look outside. We think that other people have that and that’s what we’re chasing but it’s, and it has a certain external representation. But I really think that it’s an internal feeling. And I think you can have it whenever you choose to put the work into that. And I also think it’s difficult because it’s not as visible to other people a lot of the time.

Kate Caddle 10:55
Absolutely. It doesn’t feel tangible and so we look at somebody who is, like, appears to be thriving in their life. And I actually had a guest on my podcast recently, who, from the outside, she ticks every single box. She just like, oh my God, she’s beautiful, and she’s talented. And you know, she’s got this amazing family and all of the things, if I want to be happy, I need to do all those things. But in having the conversation with her, she actually knows herself inside out and every single thing she does in her life, she does because it fills her up from the inside. So I think I’m so glad you brought that up because when we look at somebody who appears to be thriving, and they just seem like they’ve got it figured out, we look to the things that are tangible. So we look at the fact that maybe they have a particular hairstyle. And I know this sounds really superficial, but we do it. Like we look at like, their hairstyle, or the clothes that they wear, or you know, the the type of diet they have, or whatever it is, and we’re like, oh, I need to do that and then I’ll be happy like them. But if you look deeper, and if these are people that are truly happy, the reason that they’re happy is because they’ve done the work. They know themselves so well and everything that they do in their life is from the point of view of does this fill me up? So yeah, I’m really glad that you brought that up because I think that that’s a really great distinction to have.

Natalie K. Douglas 12:18
Yeah, I actually think it’s something that needs so much more attention because, because it is so easy to be attracted to those things that are more. Yeah, measurable and visible. And I just don’t see that to be true in in the work that I do. And what I’ve discovered myself, I just I just feel like calling bullshit on it all of the time. I’m like, wait a minute.

Kate Caddle 12:42
Yeah, I hear you. And like full transparency. This is definitely something that I have personally struggled to communicate in my work is something that you can’t see it and you don’t know it until you feel it but I think that if you’re feeling cold to make a shift. If your systems for living right now are not serving you to feel happiness and joy every single day in some capacity, and you decide, hang on a sec, this isn’t good enough, I want to encourage you to trust that and just do something that allows you to get to know yourself a little bit better because it’s just following those tiny breadcrumbs. And, you know, once you have made these decisions, and you’ve started to make some shifts in your life towards supporting yourself on a deeper level, you cannot go back, you will not go back because it’s just like, why would I do anything but care for myself because this is amazing.

Natalie K. Douglas 13:39
Yeah. And it’s an interesting middle ground to be and when you feel it, when you’re in that place where you started to taste the what it feels like to have that freedom that comes with knowing yourself really well and accepting it. And also still got like a little toe dipped in the chasing what we have, you know, been conditioned to chase. And it’s okay that sometimes you dance between the two world. I think knowing that you’re you always have the answers inside of you of what it is that he’s going to lead you to feel the way you want to feel. It’s just crowding out all the noise. And I think that actually leads really nicely into what I wanted to ask you as well, Kate, which is around, like practically speaking. What does that look like? Like, how does someone actually start to shift their mindset in a really practical like day-to-day way? What are some examples that they can use to try and even just start along that path?

Kate Caddle 14:47
I think the big thing here is do not overcomplicate it. I think keep it very very simple. And the most important thing is that you’re doing things that make you feel good. So you know, a great takeaway from today is to make a list of the things that you know, that make you feel great, and you might be doing them now, or they might have been something from your childhood but having that go-to list is really helpful and supportive. So for example, for me, I mean, I spoke a little bit about my morning routine at the start, but I love to meditate. I love journaling, I love doing my angel cards, I’d love being in nature, and I’m a Taurus and I love being alone. So, those are things that really serve and support me, and no surprise, basically, all you need for most of them is your body, like the journaling, and probably not gonna journal on my body.

Natalie K. Douglas
We won’t judge you.

Kate Caddle
If you don’t need much to actually do these things that fill us up. And we cloud out this idea of self-care with, you know, it has to be this big, massive thing. But I truly believe it’s those little things that we do every single day. And so, if you’re at the beginning of your journey, having some structure around this might be supportive. So it might be that you’re at the point where you know, you know, if you don’t get up in the morning and do something for yourself, before your children wake up or before the rest of the house wakes up, that you’re gonna do it, then it’s probably a good time to set an alarm at 5:30 every morning, have half an hour to yourself before you start your day. And I think having that commitment to yourself in the beginning helps to shift that system of living that you have been on to something that is going to serve you a little bit more. So number one is, keep it really really simple. Number two, know what actually lights you up and what makes you feel good and decide that you want to make space for it every single day because how you matter. Oh, sorry. How you feel matters.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:42
I love that. And just to add a few extra ones to what makes you feel good. I agree with all of them. I also like a balance between being alone and being a superstar as a Leo. I really love dancing, like just by myself in the kitchen, just moving to some music. I feel like it’s a really great way to shift energy and also it’s really helped me reconnect my mind and my body like to actually connect back into it. So that’s something I’ve found really beneficial on top of those other ones you mentioned, Kate, as well.

Kate Caddle
I love that.

Natalie K. Douglas
I’m really curious about also, I feel, I feel like I will come up with this challenge. So I’m just going to bring it forward is there is a lot of information out there in relation to pregnancy and preconception. There’s so many books, there’s Google, there’s your friends, there’s this lots of different opinions in social media. How do you actually think women should navigate the kind of like, between being informed and knowledgeable about the process? Because let’s be honest, like not a lot of us know much about pregnancy until it’s actually happening. And versus kind of trusting their intuition and their body and knowing that you will in I guess, in essence born to create, really. How do you find, like, how do they strike that balance? Because I feel like knowledge is power, but then too much of it can just be paralyzing.

Kate Caddle 18:21
Absolutely, I think that we need to definitely choose our sources. And that will be different based on you know what, what our priorities are, and the place that we get our priorities. And what’s important to us as a mother is inside of us. Like that is where you find out what matters to you. So I would say before you dive into any content, get a little bit of clarity around who you want to be in motherhood, not who you want your children to be, who you want to be in motherhood. How can I best show up? And I would say approach content, and what you’re reading, and books, and advice, and all of those things from the point of view of how can you support me to be more of who I want to be in motherhood. So for example, for me, I really had hoped that I would be able to have a drug-free birth. And that was for a variety of different reasons but that was something that I knew was really important to me. And so, I filled myself with knowledge in the area of an unassisted birth, basically, and I equipped myself so that I was able to believe in my ability to do that because here’s the thing with beliefs. They are completely fluid, right? You can believe what you want to believe, and I can believe what I want to believe and they can be completely opposite. And we will find evidence to prove that what we believe is true. For example, and I feel like we can all relate to this is if you decide that it’s great for your body to drink cow’s milk, you will find all the evidence to prove that you’re correct. If I decide it’s bad for my body to drink cow’s milk, I will find all the evidence to prove myself correct. So we actually do choose our beliefs. So if you’re connected to what it is that you desire and what you want as a human, and this could be the very beginning of that, right? This might not be the big picture, this is the motherhood experience that I hope to have, this is how I’m going to show up for it. Okay, now give me a bit more information, it might just be, you know, I feel like I would love to be able to breastfeed, that might be the beginning of it. And then so look into resources that show you the positive, you know, the positive side of how you can create that experience for yourself. I think I feel like I’m rambling a little bit. But I think that we need to have discernment around our boundaries with it. So basically, be clear on what it is you want, even if it’s just the very beginning part of what you want, and look for resources that are able to support you to expand on that. Because at the end of the day, like I said, this is about trusting in yourself. If you trust yourself, as a mother, I believe that is the absolute best tool that you can have. If you can look at a scenario and break it down into the two options that you have because it usually is only two options that we have. And go, okay, this is option one, these are the circumstances. This is option two, these are the circumstances. This is my priority, which one fits better, like this is my overarching priority in motherhood which one fits better. So yeah, I think it’s important to be clear on what it is that we want to bring into motherhood. And I think that we also need to be bound our eating in what we allow ourselves to consume and know ourselves enough to know when we’ve had enough. And you know, if you’ve got people in your life who are very strongly opinionated around parenting, pregnancy, birth, anything like that, and if they’re sharing things that you don’t want to kind of carry with you, you know, you can say, you can say to them, like, I really appreciate what you’re saying, and just leave that there, or thank you for sharing that with me. You don’t actually have to engage in taking that conversation further. Like, if someone’s sharing, like a really horrific birth story with you, and you’ll find it really traumatic, you can just say, thank you for sharing that with me. And you can just leave it and we’ll go away from that. Yeah, does that answer your question?

Natalie K. Douglas 22:16
It does. I like that and I, I think something that comes up for me is, if you notice you’re consuming something and it’s making you fearful or feel disconnected from your body or disconnected from the journey or anything, then stop reading it. I think, read the things that are making you feel empowered from a knowledge perspective, not just fearful of here’s every single situation that could happen, because I think that, yeah, what you what you fill your mind with is, is part of what is created. And I also think it creates a more trusting experience, like I think, especially society now, and women now, we need to consume more stuff that teaches us to trust our body, to love our body, to know that we have everything we need within us, as opposed to constantly pulling us out more. Like, I absolutely think that you know, medicine and conventional medicine in an emergency situation is life-saving and it’s really good to know that that’s there, if that is needed. And I also think that it’s important to fill most of our our mind with the fact that our body is incredible and we are capable beyond belief. And it’s something that I think is important when you’re in a situation that is unfamiliar or new. And I just that’s going to be my approach anyway. But I’ll talk to you about it once it happens because I couldn’t come back to you and be like, whoops, I didn’t do that.

Kate Caddle 23:57
I think a really good indicator with this too, is to ask yourself, why you’re making the decisions you’re making. So if you, if you will say, if there’s a choice that you’re making around birth, and you’re making it because you’re scared, then that’s an opportunity to grow and learn and fill yourself with the opposite. So for example, if you’re fearful of childbirth, and you’re like, the moment that I go into, you know, into the labor ward, I’m getting an epidural because I’m afraid of the pain. That’s an opportunity to grow. Okay, hang on a second, how can I grow here because I don’t need to be afraid of that pain because this is very natural. So I think it’s really important to look at our intentions behind it because if you’re someone who’s like, I am really excited for this experience, I know that I want to have an epidural because I want to be calm and I want to be relaxed and that feels so exciting to me, then that’s a completely different energy to I want it because I’m scared. And I think we need to check in with the intention behind the choices that we’re making and what we are wanting to manifest and create for ourselves, because if it is, you know, in that fear state, then we’re not serving our inner connection with ourselves and building that faith in our own ability. So I think, look at the reasons behind why you have the choices that you have, and whether it comes from a place of fear or from a place of love, and connection. And that will help you to see, you know, if you’re, if what you’re doing or what you’re planning to do is actually going to continue to build that relationship with yourself, or if it’s going to push you further away from it.

Natalie K. Douglas 25:31
I love that. That’s really really good advice. And I’m curious to know, as well, how can, like, how do you actually work with women to support them through conception and pregnancy? Because I know that I can’t be the only one sitting here being like, you’re definitely on my team. So how like, what does that actually look like and how can people work with you in that way?

Kate Caddle 25:56
So the big thing that I do is I help you to experience your journey without fear. And I do that, I’m a coach, which you have shared. So I do that with working with women one-on-one at this point. And what we do together is we, it’s a really personalized experience. So we get to talk about the things that you’re fearful of, the things that are challenging you about your experience, whether you are trying to conceive or whether you’re pregnant, and you’re preparing for your birth. And I get to help you to implement strategies and tools, and all of the techniques that you need to strengthen that relationship with yourself so that you truly do have that insane self-belief that you’re like, I know I’ve got this. Even in the down moments, I know I’m going to be good. So yeah, I mean, that’s that’s kind of what we do together is we help to, I help you to remove the fear and really feel empowered and like the fittest woman that you are so that you can have the most incredible experience, whether it is conception or pregnancy and really nurture yourself to have like the best time because it’s so freakin cool. Like growing a human is amazing.

Natalie K. Douglas
Isn’t it so incredible?

Kate Caddle
Oh my God.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:06
When I think about it. I’m like holy shit, I actually grow a whole human, two if I wanted too, or three.

Kate Caddle 27:14
Exactly. Like, it’s, it’s so amazing. It doesn’t matter how many times you see it, or you experience it. I feel like, especially if you’ve had any type of challenge there are so many beautiful little things that happen to birth a healthy little human. And I think that being in a state of gratitude and amazement for our body, like we don’t even really have to do anything like our body does it. Like, I definitely use that excuse with my husband when he asked me to do things. I was like, mate, I’m busy. I’ve got a baby right here.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:46
So, I was building some brain cells, just mind giving me a minute.

Kate Caddle 27:50
But really, we don’t actually have to do anything, like, our body will do it on its own. So I think that our work as a mother is to get our mindset into the most beautiful empowering space so that we get to have a great experience. And so that we get to show up for these tiny humans. Like, I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but these little people that are being born right now awoke like they have got this world figured out. And we really need to uplevel to be able to parent them. Like, I have no doubt that from that moment five, well, actually, it’s seven years ago now since to that moment, seven years ago, when my journey began with that moment in the emergency room with the endo. When I think about that, and who I was then, and like who I am now. It’s like, whoa, like, I am a completely different person. And all of that I believe was Flynn preparing me to be his mother. Before he was even in my womb, he was working his magic, making me wake up, making me grow, making me learn so that I could be who he needed me to be. So, yeah, I hope you do that.

Natalie K. Douglas 28:59
Well, do that sounds a little bit good, doesn’t it? I actually think it should be mandatory. Like, I feel like this is how it would have been when we grew up in tribes, there would have been women helping other women through this process in so many different ways. And I think that I am so all about women having that kind of support through preconception and pregnancy. I just think what an invaluable resource to have on your side. I just yeah, I’m all about it. I love that. And I’ll definitely pop all of your links to your website and social media and all, and your podcast as well into the show notes because people definitely need to get amongst that and share it with their friends who are looking to be pregnant or who are pregnant because what a powerful thing to have on your side. Now, before we wrap up, I have one final question that I again I ask all of the guests, is what is one thing that you do for your health daily, that you haven’t already mentioned, extra challenge there.

Kate Caddle 30:05
One thing I do that I haven’t mentioned.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:07
Okay, maybe besides meditation.

Kate Caddle 30:09
I feel like the over, like, the one thing that I consistently do multiple times a day for my health is I check in with how I feel, I asked myself what I need, and I give it to myself, which sounds really, really simple, but so many of us disregard what we actually need. So, like right now checking in on like, I’m a bit hungry, I’m going to go get some food after this.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, the same.

Kate Caddle
So yeah, I think it’s just that consistent checking in with myself internally and going, okay, what do I need right now? What’s going to support me most right now and then actually doing it.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:41
Um, yes, that is beautiful. I really like that. And I have to say, you’re the first guest that has answered that way. And I love it. I actually think, what a great tip. Gosh, I think I do that most of the time but now I’m going to be more conscious of doing it every time. I think that’s yeah, I love that. Good one, Kate.

Kate Caddle 31:01
I spend a lot of time by myself. So, I probably do talk to myself more.

Natalie K. Douglas 31:06
So, you just like rocking this isolation business. You’re like.

Kate Caddle 31:09
I have. I have been but I actually saw a meme the other day that said, I’m a homebody, but I actually liked going to those one or two places. I’m kind of getting to that point.

Natalie K. Douglas 31:19
Yeah, I feel that. I feel the same. I very much like my own company but it’s just you just need like a little top up of like someone outside of you just yourself every now and again.

Kate Caddle 31:31
Yeah. Yeah. My son is he’s an Aries. And he just like he is so social. He’s such a people person. And he’s actually been loving being at home, I think because he’s getting more of my undivided attention but the other day he said to me, he came up to me said mommy markets markets. Oh, buddy the markets aren’t on cuz they’re, like, closed at the moment but he’s obviously starting to feel it too. I think I think we’re getting to that point where we’re like, okay, we’re done.

Natalie K. Douglas 31:59
It was fun for a bit, but time to move on.

Kate Caddle
Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
Feels, I’m sure everyone can have many people can resonate with that. That’s awesome. Well, Kate, thank you for such an incredible chat. And I really, I think, yeah, I just think what a what a great resource for people to come back to and definitely, I would encourage people to go and listen to your podcast because there’s many more really great conversations happening over there. So thank you, and let’s go get some.

Kate Caddle 32:29
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been awesome.

Natalie K. Douglas
You’re welcome.

Outro 32:34
Thanks for tuning in to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. Remember, we love to make the show relevant to you. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to discuss, just submit them to [email protected] and we’ll get them answered for you. Also, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on iTunes and share it with your friend. And if you’re looking for more info about how we can accelerate your journey to your optimal health, you can find me, Nat, over at NatalieKDouglas.com, and Kate, at TheHolisticNutritionist.com. See you next time!