#80 Playing Your Way to Optimal Health

The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast


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"Getting back into regular meditation and outdoor play with my kids has been really helping my stress and anxiety a lot. I love to do my meditation with a little bit of Frankincense essential oil to help me go deeper, or I'll just smell it straight from the bottle as it really helps to calm my stress response."

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In Episode 80 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss the benefits of outdoor play and the importance of play for adults.

  • What does play mean
  • The proven benefits of play for your health
  • Our fave ways to play as an adult
  • Reflections on our favourite 80s and 90s childhood games and bringing it back
  • Getting over the idea that play is a waste of time 
  • Making it happen in reality

Intro 0:00
Hello and welcome to the holistic nutritionist podcast with your host Natalie cay, Douglas, thyroid, viola and Kate Callahan, the holistic nutritionist. net and Kate a degree qualified dietitians and nutritionists, certified fitness instructors, speakers and authors. If you love unfiltered banter on edited bloopers and authentic heart sharing, then we are your ladies. Now it’s time to sit back, relax and get ready for our latest tips on living your healthiest life possible.

Kate Callaghan 0:35
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the holistic nutritionist podcast. How are you?

Natalie K. Douglas 0:42
Hello. Okay. I like when you introduce. I feel like when you do it, it’s smooth. I feel like when I do it sounds like a toddler trying to host like a morning show.

Kate Callaghan 0:56
I’m back. Welcome

Natalie K. Douglas 0:58
back everybody. I love I listened back to my episode sometimes. Just because I get sometimes I get this like, wave of feeling that like something’s gone wrong. Like as in I’ve, like uploaded something wrong or I don’t know. And so then I listened back to it. And it’s really actually quite embarrassing, because when I listened back to us, I actually actually think clack were really funny.

Kate Callaghan 1:22
Yeah, why do you sound surprised?

Intro 1:24
Why do we just laugh at you? I laugh at me like,

Kate Callaghan 1:28
yeah, nailed that one.

Unknown Speaker 1:30
I’m like, Oh my god, I’m so funny. I always have friends.

Unknown Speaker 1:35
I have a friend.

Intro 1:36
That is me.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:38
I guess I’ve been good. I’ve been entertained listening back to I think I’ve been enjoying running lately, which is I go through phases. Sometimes I’m running on a run. And then other times, I’m like ready to run a marathon. Not really, I only go for like, five k runs. That’s kind of like my limit where I’m like, this is good. I’m feeling good. I like this elevated heart rate that’s not too high, just manageable. And I leave me the ocean. So it’s really, I wouldn’t really like to run just around the streets. I like running alone, kind of like the path near the ocean. But then after that five k mark, I’m like, again, are not into this anymore. I’m just gonna stop. Do you like running?

Kate Callaghan 2:22
I’m, I’m a more of a sprinter. And I’ve always been more of that fast twitch muscle fiber type of person. So I can’t I struggle to get into the zone of your ageing of the organ. I go too fast. And then I’m like shit, now I’m worn out. And then I want to fast and then I will. And I like the idea of it. That I’m yet to get into it. I’ve been more loving my yoga, more recently. sweaty yoga.

Natalie K. Douglas 2:58
Yes, I do love a good sweaty yoga sesh. I’ve also I also did or decode a bunch of my friends were doing like a CrossFit workout on the weekend. And I wasn’t planning on exercising that day, because I just you know, it was Sunday. And I was like, No, I don’t exercise on Sunday. It was just a story. I tell myself, I will cry hoc, but I joined other into structured exercise anyway. But they’re all going and I got a bit of FOMO. And I really want to hang out with them. So I’ll go and I went and I don’t know if anyone’s heard of the fealty 50. But it’s

Kate Callaghan 3:33

Natalie K. Douglas 3:34
oh, it’s a bunch of different exercises that you do. And you have to do 50 reps of each of them. I almost thrown up, like throw up, throw it up threw up. I just like and I didn’t even like, I mean, I think I have a bit of a competitive nature. So I wouldn’t say I didn’t push myself but not to the extent that I would have in the past. Plus, I counted. I used to do this every single day, sometimes twice a day. What was I thinking? Like this? And I could tell that the day after and even today I’m just like, Nah, that type of exercises like a you know, once a once a week once a fortnight kind of thing. And not a daily thing for me. I just think for me it just, it’s too harsh on my nervous system for it to to be of benefit. I don’t know.

Kate Callaghan 4:21
I would agree. We’d go hiking. Yes, you live down in the Shire. You do you go to the National Park domain?

Natalie K. Douglas 4:29
Yes, I do. I love the National Park. And there’s lots of really nice coastal walks, although I feel like I have like a snake curse because every time except for one time I’ve gone. I’ve seen a snake and you love kindness things. Well, I’ve seen mostly red bellied black snakes, which are more docile so they won’t really attack you unless you you know, purposely aggravate them or step on them. And then I’ve seen I think one brown snake and then the aggressive like will hunt you down kinds of snakes. I mean, maybe not to that extent. They are like known to be more aggressive and then like red bellied black snakes. And so and because my eyesight isn’t amazing, like I still wear my glasses when I was gonna

Kate Callaghan 5:16
say you should probably wear glasses.

Australian bush I see a lot of things that can kill you.

Natalie K. Douglas 5:24
They really are. That’s why I want to move to New Zealand. I’m like, I just can’t like half like it’s relaxing to go in the Royal National Park to an extent but I still have this underlying anxiety just under the surface thing like you could die today. I was in New Zealand. I was just nailing it. I was like a head like let’s just go this way doesn’t matter. I’ll bush bash. I’m not afraid. But then in the like Australian bush. I’m like, Hey, boy, maybe you just go

Kate Callaghan 5:53
first. Like, let’s not

Natalie K. Douglas 5:56
go around that way. I just get way more nervous. I don’t really like bush bashing to be honest. It takes away the calmness thing for me. I don’t really like that side of it. I like hiking in open spaces like along the coastline where there’s rocks and stuff I don’t like

Kate Callaghan 6:13
do you want to explain what bush bashing is to?

Natalie K. Douglas 6:18
Walking through tracks where you kind of have to like push trees and shrubs and dangerous animals

Kate Callaghan 6:28
out of your out of your base and drop

Natalie K. Douglas 6:31
bears and like to trip over shit. And like I’m just not into that I can’t I find that more of like a physical challenge and like a mental challenge than what I actually go hiking for which is like stress relief. And ah, isn’t this lovely? Look at the beautiful landscape and things not killing me. That’s why I go hiking. I’m not into I’m not into the other stuff. Once upon a time. Yes, but I feel like I’ve become more not challenged seeking in my old age.

Kate Callaghan 7:03
Not old. Not old at all.

Natalie K. Douglas 7:08
So you know what I mean? Like I don’t it’s like surfing. I don’t. I like surfing when there’s small manageable waves that if I get dumped, no biggie. I don’t like going surfing being like, I’m absolutely going to nail this six foot wave is not happening. I could die. I don’t like things where I could die.

Kate Callaghan 7:29
Make fun. Anyone

Intro 7:31
else got hockey?

Kate Callaghan 7:33
Or just come to New Zealand where it’s a little more relaxing when you’re hiking. Alright, so good. If there’s no risk of avalanches or slips.

Natalie K. Douglas 7:41
Yeah, that’s true. I am a bit clumsy. So that is a barrier. But

Kate Callaghan 7:46
no, like Earth slips not use

actual slips? Yeah, that would really

like you can’t control this.

Intro 7:59
I can’t control my own slips.

Natalie K. Douglas 8:04
Okay, well speaking, hiking and fun and play. We’re actually speaking about play today. And I actually did,

I got I like, went down a little bit of a rabbit hole. Because I wonder if this many people talking about play in the benefits of playing in adults instead of just in, in children? And I actually found some stuff. So I don’t know, I thought maybe we could start with what what play is or what it means. It doesn’t have to be a scientific definition. But what what’s it mean to you?

Kate Callaghan 8:38
know, if someone said it to me on the street, I probably wouldn’t say what I was about to say. cuz I’d be like, Uh huh. I’m just gonna take a sidestep, today, and slowly back away from you. So a while ago, I actually got my husband to write a blog post on Patreon play. This is back in 2014. And long time ago, and he described I like his description, he said plays any voluntary activity that is fun and really has no purpose or goal oriented outcome. It allows the participant to get into a state of flow where very little conscious thought is occurring. It becomes an out of self experience. Oh, I love that.

Natalie K. Douglas 9:22
Yeah, I agree. And I when I was diving into this a little bit, there’s a really good TED talk by a researcher, Stuart Brown, I’ll pop the link to his TED talk in the show notes. But he like so he studies play, which I’m like, Oh my god, I’m in the wrong profession. Anyway, so he studies play, although I think most of his research has been in animals because there’s just not enough fun like no one wants to study humans playing adults playing, which is a mistake, I think because I would totally volunteer for that study. But he put forward the Kind of like archetypes of play. So

Kate Callaghan 10:03
they were

Natalie K. Douglas 10:04
rough and tumble play. So things like, I don’t know, tug of war or dodgeball. And then and probably contact sports would fall into that then there was ritual play. So those were things like sports where there’s like structure and rules or board games like chess or something where yet structure and rules kind of thing. And then body play, which isn’t as kinky as it sounds, it’s actually things like rock climbing or dancing surfing. And then they’ll then those another to imagine you play. So coloring, painting, acting, and then there was object play. So building Jenga, or, you know, something like that. And I thought that’s so, so interesting, because he’s right, there are heaps of different categories of it. And you’re speaking a lot about the benefits of play for your health. And, you know, I think a lot of them we know, to be of benefit for children. But he was also explaining that a lot of it continues, like the benefits don’t just change as soon as you’re, you’re older. So in terms of benefits, it’s play stimulates creativity releases endorphins, it triggers the secretion of BDNF, which is basically a chemical, I guess that helps with brain cell growth. And so obviously, you know, play improves brain function, it improves contextual memory. And it also stimulates the growth of the cerebral cortex. So just for context, the cerebral cortex is involved in processing sensory information, planning and organizing, language processing, personality, development, intelligence, motor function, if I didn’t already say that. And yeah, those those were the main ones. And then and I feel like one of the really obvious benefits is that it just makes you laugh more often, as long as you’re playing with the right people. I hate playing board games with cheaters. Not like if anyone’s listening, but to play board games. Me and my one of my best friends used to have like, such fights when we played board games, because we were both a little bit sneaky. But anyway, so bleep Did you always vote to be the banker? So you could cheat? No, actually do a year with my brother I did. I was a bit of a cheater when I was little with my island only playing with my brother though. And then the poor thing like he was older than me, but if he let me when I’d get angry, I’d be like, why did you let me when I’m old enough to play by myself? And then if he won, I’d be like, why did you win? And I chucked the board every like, I’d check the cards and like, pick them up. I was a little bit crazy when I was little. completely fine. Now. Anyone want to come over for board games? Yeah, I, I don’t really like card games and board games and stuff. But I would say for the most part, my play was very outdoorsy kind of thing. What about you? Well, what about now? What what are your favorite ways to play as an adult?

Kate Callaghan 13:16
Well, I think it makes it easier having children, if you allow yourself to be present with them, and just to tap into their play and run around with them and mostly kind of that imaginative playing going, we know there’s fairies in the trees and just running around and fully immersing in, in what they’re actually doing. Because play is their life. That’s that’s all they do. And that’s all you want your children to do. Really, I mean, I think we need to focus less on you need to be able to say the alphabet and count 10 and write your name mean crap, really. But just letting them play as you said that it’s so good for that BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor, it’s kind of like your fertilizer for your brain that helps to stimulate that growth in that those, the wiring of the brain and to help you be more resilient in all manners of the word. And there’s actually research around it helping with anti aging as well. And we know what we’re talking about the brain we know that things like Alzheimer’s and dementia is such a huge issue these days. I think it’s it’s really worth making that time carving that time out for some play for yourself. I do love coloring in as well. And Nina’s adult coloring books. Olivia stolen my adult coloring book and just kind of scribbled on it like that. That was that was a $50

Natalie K. Douglas 14:43
dot between the lines Olivia it’s

Kate Callaghan 14:44
not between. I kind of twitchy like, oh god, that was a very expensive coloring book.

But then I was allowing myself to tap into the play. Let’s let it Go and say, okay, you can draw on that page and that page only

go in between the lines. No, I’m kidding.

But she will sit down with her all the time. And she encourages me to draw unicorns and castles and she’s very good. She she is saying I can’t do when she is just try me. It’s good to try. And her latest one is we learned through our mistakes like who are you freaking Gandhi?

I named someone remind you

Unknown Speaker 15:38
it’s like so much cuter when it comes like from a child instead of someone else.

Kate Callaghan 15:43
Yeah, sure. Oh, my God, you’re so wise. You’re so wise. I love I love getting out into nature as well. And just connecting with nature, I actually like going off the beaten path where I actually have to focus on where I’m putting my fate for safety reasons. Because it allows me to get out of my head. Yeah. Whereas if I was just going in a straight narrow path with no obstacles, I could get in my head a little bit. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Yeah. Do you know what else I like to do that play with play? I like to get on the list. It’s in Olivia’s little scooters in all the bike and drive around. Let them push around. Or we put it at the top of the hill and slide down. And in summer, we’re going to get a slip and slide.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:27
Oh, yes. I will have slipping slides.

Kate Callaghan 16:31
I would say I would say trembling as well. I love the trampoline. But pelvic floor not so fab for that moment.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:38
Yes. could understand you might end up with like a pelvic floor and a pool bunny.

Kate Callaghan 16:46
But not ideal kind of one you’d want to swim. No, not the kind of one that you want to slip and slide in.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:52
No, probably not. No, no. There’s some people that are enjoyed.

Intro 16:57
You guys

Kate Callaghan 17:00
know? Yeah, I

Natalie K. Douglas 17:02
had a trampoline when I was younger,

Kate Callaghan 17:03
and I absolutely loved it. We used to put under a train playing the rectangle one with no mats. We used to put the sprinkler underneath it and detergent on top.

Natalie K. Douglas 17:13
Oh, that’s fun. Yeah, we used to put like, as many like we had a lot of different balls, like footballs, tennis balls, softballs, baseballs. And every bowl you could imagine we used to put every single one of them on the trampoline and used to have to jump around and not let the balls hit you. Or we used to play another one where my brother was not on the trampoline. And I was on the term plane. And they we pegged balls at each other. So

Kate Callaghan 17:44
dodgeball, yes. But I’m

Natalie K. Douglas 17:45
not sure how to play it. It was much harder. It was it was fun. I really enjoyed that. But then I guess like these days, my well actually no, let’s stick with the with the with the old with the like 80s 90s kind of childhood games since we’re on that bandwagon. So I definitely think like the trampling was definitely a highlight. I also really loved skipping, but we’d like the big ropes where you used to do have to going at once and used to like play games in there. I used to love that. Or elastics Did you ever play elastic? Inside Outside? Yeah. Yeah, I didn’t know. I wasn’t that great at it because I was small. But did you play Tutsis? I don’t know what it is. So it’s when you like used to play on this like square kind of piece of concrete. And you’d run and jump in. And every one would kind of have a turn and you have to try and step on each other’s toes. And you can’t move like once you like, try, you can’t move your feet. So if you like just miss someone and then your foot is between someone else’s two feet, you can’t move, and they could just step on your toes. And they’d say towards ease. We did that. Oh, I got I gotta play when I come and see you one day. We did. We did hopscotch.

Kate Callaghan 19:05
Oh, yeah. hopscotch was fun to marbles. cartwheels. Do you know, these days schools? I love school. Who knows? That might be an exaggeration, but some schools then things like cartwheels. They’ve been dodgeballs they’ve been coming in freeze. Kids are wrapped up in cotton wool. My gosh.

Natalie K. Douglas 19:25
It’s like half my childhood. And what about Did you play Bart?

Kate Callaghan 19:37
Bob is the best. So

Natalie K. Douglas 19:40
please, if someone listens to this, please tell me someone else knows what I’m talking about. So use it as like a tennis ball game where you’d throw the ball against a wall and you’d have to try and catch it or there’ll be people on the wall and they’d have to try and intercept it anyway, it was very fun and it was very much an indication if The boy you liked got you off the wall. No one got me off the wall but still.

Unknown Speaker 20:09

Natalie K. Douglas 20:09
no, I reckon those were some of my my favorite ones. I mean, I was very into team sports like soccer and netball, softball people, all those kind of things. And I did. I did a bit of acting when I was little as well, which was fun. And I liked art. My I was actually quite a creative little kid, like I did quite a lot of drawing and painting because my mom is super crafty. She’s work. She’s a physiotherapist, but she definitely chose her own profession. She’s really creative and just makes like still to this day. That’s pretty much what like she’s retired now. And that’s what she spent most of her time doing. And so are a lot of my like my Auntie’s like that as well. And my cousin, like, there’s a lot of very creative people in my family. But me and my brother didn’t really pursue that. I don’t know, I just got an eating disorder. And so I got obsessed with food and science.

Kate Callaghan 21:06
Oh, Doudna.

Unknown Speaker 21:09
I know, but it’s

Kate Callaghan 21:09
never too late. Just give it a go. Exactly. I think bringing back play is so wonderful for stress management, which we speak about all the time, which I’m sure the listeners are getting bored about us bringing back kind of key, sorry, but as he spoke about releasing those endorphins, and also the calming neurotransmitters, and when we laugh, we know you know, the saying is laughter is the best medicine. And it truly is if you allow yourself to just get out of your own head and stop worrying about what other people are going to think of you because you’re having a bit of play, then it’s so healing.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:46
Yeah, there is nothing better than that. Deep belly laugh that’s just uncontrollable in like your eyes water. And like that. You’re laughing but no sounds coming out of love it. How do you incorporate that? play into your life? Yeah. So you mentioned playing with your kids. And that being a really good entry into that world. But how else? If any, any other ways? Do you make it happen in reality, or how did you do it before you had children? And we’re an adult?

Kate Callaghan 22:20
Um, I think because Aaron is quite into it into play in terms of, he’s a nerd, so he knows the health benefits of it. And when he knows the health benefits of something, he’s like, would you do this? He was always good at encouraging it. You know, we’d always hang out in the backyard and do handstands and cartwheels and play with bowls and go swimming and just have a laugh with each other. Or we might go on an adventure somewhere. I love, love, love. theme parks. Aaron doesn’t share that love with me. I am I am hanging out for the day when my kids are old enough to hold my bags while I go on rides. Oh my god, can

Natalie K. Douglas 23:07
I love them too? I’m coming. I’m inviting myself. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I love that I love like, so you would make your dates or your time together? incorporate some kind of play?

Kate Callaghan 23:23
Yeah. And sex as well is kind of play.

Natalie K. Douglas 23:27
Definitely. Yeah. And I think that’s probably the main way most people probably access it now. But I feel like there are so many other ways I think one thing that we do or we use we actually haven’t done it in a while but we used to do quite a lot is have games nights with our friends. So we would all you know when you have people over for dinner, bring out like everyone would bring a game or if whoever the host was if they had games and we would just play that so it could be like a board game card games, charades, which is my fav, and which not everyone shares my love so it doesn’t always get get played because not everyone’s comfortable being being center of attention and actually, so I have to pick my pick my crowd for that one. Or actually at the moment a lot of my friends are really into different types of musical instruments. And so a lot of my yoga friends just they have all of these really interesting instruments I don’t even know the name of half of them. So we do we do that kind of stuff all year handstands. cartwheels Surfing is another really, I find quite playful as long as it’s not too scary or curse. Doesn’t no big waves. For me. Playing in the foam is in the whitewash of rubbish. So, heaps of ways that we can incorporate it the other one that I think is quite common in Australia isn’t games of backyard cricket or frisbee like, I think there’s maybe it’s just the area I live in, because it’s quite a sporty area. But I love when I go for a walk on a Sunday. And there’s parks full of, you know, kids and adults playing, you know, cricket, or frisbee or soccer or just kicking a ball. I really like doing that as well. And that definitely brings me back into a state of childlike play, because I can so easily connect that back to what I did as a child. So I really, really enjoy that.

Kate Callaghan 25:41
I’m a little bit scarred from the old backyard cricket. My brother used to scream at me if I didn’t watch the bowl. Didn’t missed it.

Natalie K. Douglas 25:49
You’re one of those annoying ones.

Kate Callaghan 25:51
Yeah. Watch the second bowl.

Unknown Speaker 25:56

Natalie K. Douglas 25:57
we used to call our backyard the BCG, which is the book Cricket Ground. So my name my my maiden name is Burke for anyone who’s like, why did you call it that? And it’s a play on, you know, the Sydney Cricket Ground for those in New Zealand being like, I don’t get it still. I love play. And I’m not someone who associates it with laziness or wasting time. But I wanted to talk, I wanted to talk to that point, because I feel like there would be people out there who, you know, people who are maybe a little bit more serious or a little bit more, you know, no, I can only do these things because I can only do the things that are quote unquote, getting me ahead. And what would you say to those people who maybe have? Yeah, this sense that play is a waste of time, or, you know, it’s a distraction from bigger goals or bigger priorities that we should have as adults.

Kate Callaghan 26:55
I’m pretty sure that research has shown that it improves our productivity, having that break every now and then to just play and use that other side of our brain. And if we focus too much on just getting stuff done all the time, we actually become less effective over time, more stressed, more unhealthy. So I think there’s a pretty good research behind it. And, and even Albert Einstein, quote, unquote, said play is the highest form of research.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:23
Yes, good one owl. Oh, now that what a legend what a legend. Taken come and play backyard cricket it

Kate Callaghan 27:37
is it’s it’s getting out of that I need to if I’m not actually working on then this is just being lazy. But we know that we need to have that time off. And even if it is just five or 10 minutes getting outside doing a cartwheel or handstand. If you think of the cut will might split you growing a little bit. So that was a scandal, like some little phone rolls or just ride a bike and do some star jumps. Get out and have fun throw a ball juggled been juggling lately. The kids love it. dancing. Oh,

Natalie K. Douglas 28:10
did you say you can juggle? How many balls free? Oh, amazing. Put that on your Instagram, on maybe one day,

Kate Callaghan 28:20
but dancing as well. So just letting loose. So today’s is the today is zerofox Tuesday. Now what I’ve said that I need to get a dance on. See? Do you have any song suggestions for?

Natalie K. Douglas 28:34
Yes, I do. Let me just think about it. Well, I think Wait, I had one for you. And then I forgot to get back to you towards the end of the podcast while I think about it. Okay, what would you say about the laziness? I think I agree with everything you said completely. And the one thing I find frustrating it or what I’d encourage you not to do is either either play with the right attitude and be present, or like don’t do it. Because I think what defeats the purpose. And what I see some people do is try and play that have this really negative association with it, or no fun wasting time. This is a waste of time and being grumpy about it. I think if you’re if you’re thinking down that way of this is not productive. This is lazy. I agree with you, I think back to the research and that way you can at least justify it in your mind and attach it to whatever goal is important for you in terms of like maybe its productivity. And say this, as you’ve said, as actually part of the strategy to be more productive if you have to see it that way and you can’t just see it for what it is. And I think hanging around people who naturally are quite good at play and don’t have any association with it being lazy or being a waste of time. I think that can really, really be helpful and then I So think, looking at what you used to enjoy as a kid, and trying to do that again. So if you were someone who absolutely loved skipping, then start doing that, again, if you were someone who loved playing ball sports, then start doing that, again, I think that maybe some of that will create a bit of, I don’t know, nostalgia or just this sense of like an extra layer of it, and you being able to actually sink into that feeling of how good it used to make you feel. You kind of just have to see it as something that is actually helping you instead of like, you just have to change your attitude, basically, unless you change your attitude and the way that you think about it. If you do it with a bad attitude, it’s never going to have the benefits that you want it to have because you’re in a negative mind frame. And the whole point of it is to get you into a bit of a flow state and to be present. So that’s probably what I’d say to those people and maybe contact me I’m great at playing.

Unknown Speaker 31:08
I’m right. Let’s play Scrabble.

Natalie K. Douglas 31:11
Yeah, I’m like someone mentioned something to the replay. I’m like, wait, were what

Kate Callaghan 31:15
I was actually always a bit of a cheat at scribble, I came up with some pretty good word. And I’d make up make up words.

Like that’s not a word it is. If I say it is

Natalie K. Douglas 31:26
right now I can’t get away with that. My husband is super good at Scrabble because he played it a lot when he was growing up. I just love to play and I actually try to make our dates with my with my husband, I try to make our dates involve some form of play. So whether it’s outdoors he and you know, if we’re going for a walk, take a football or soccer ball or something to play with. Or if it’s a really nice day in the cert squad, take the surfboards out or the bodyboards out I like stand up paddleboarding as well. And if where, I don’t know if we’re, if we’re just having like a night in and making dinner, whatever I’ll put some music on. And for dads, there’s lots of little ways to incorporate more of it. And I would say I’m much better at playing than he is he kind of gets a bit of that anxiety that he should be doing something but when he is able to drop into playing, he’s really good at it too. Like he’s got a very natural, adventurous playful side. It’s just that it’s kind of been conditioned out of him a little bit. And the more he practices it, the better he gets at just accepting it and loving it for what it is.

Kate Callaghan 32:42
And yeah,

Natalie K. Douglas 32:44
now your song, I actually forgot to think about it. So do you want like a song? A hit now or a 996? Good 90s

Kate Callaghan 32:56
something that I can actually dance to? Not something that’s slow and boring.

Natalie K. Douglas 33:02
What about some Backstreet Boys?

Kate Callaghan 33:04
Do you know what I have been thinking about? Backstreet Boys? Awesome. Awesome. New Kids on the Block.

Do you even know who knew Kids on the Block?

Unknown Speaker 33:11
No, no, I don’t.

Kate Callaghan 33:13
Oh, God. Okay.

Natalie K. Douglas 33:14
In saying that. I am.

Kate Callaghan 33:17

Natalie K. Douglas 33:18
I am. I don’t know that you just get it. I got it. Someone who actually remembers the name of artists very well. It’s more song. All right. I will look into it. Yeah. So I feel Yeah, I actually have my dance concert soon. I do dancing. That’s the way I play. I enrolled myself in dance classes everybody jazz

Kate Callaghan 33:45
for you?

Natalie K. Douglas 33:46
jazz and we do we’re dancing to cold hearted snake by Paul Abdo, which I did not know before it started content. I love it. But you know, whatever. And then the other dance is to Madonna. Music. So fun times. I’ll let you know how

Kate Callaghan 34:04
that goes. I could just Madonna,

Natalie K. Douglas 34:06
you could do some Madonna. Now, the final part of our podcasts which I tend to have a habit of completely forgetting that and have successfully done so again, which you may have as well. But what is your recommendation for this week of something that you have been

Intro 34:25
loving or lacking?

Kate Callaghan 34:28
Can I do a recommendation against something

Natalie K. Douglas 34:34
doesn’t get you out of recommending something that you like,

Kate Callaghan 34:37
Okay. All right. Whoa. So have you ever watched The Handmaid’s Tale?

Natalie K. Douglas 34:41
I watched half an episode. I was traumatized and I turned it off. So no.

Kate Callaghan 34:46
Okay. Yes, but no, but I’ve never watched it. Because I don’t think I have the thing that you watch it through. It’s not on Netflix. It’s on something else.

What’s that box

Stan, maybe I don’t know. I don’t know. Something else anyway. Anyway. So I got it on audio book.

And I would have to say it’s pretty shit. Yeah.

So it’s a little it goes for 11 hours, 22 minutes, and I’ve only got three hours to go. I’ve stuck with it for this long because I’m so stubborn. Oh God, how do you I can’t. I’m impressed. Yeah, I am unimpressed.

Intro 35:33
Well, I’m unimpressed with The Handmaid’s

Kate Callaghan 35:35
Tale with your ability to stick to something because I would have a in like a year now this is not for me. Oh, I’ve just been hoping it would get better, but I don’t think it’s going to. But one thing that I would say I’m recommending, would be getting back into regular meditation has been really helping my stress and anxiety a lot. And I love to do my meditation with a little bit of Frankincense to help me go deeper into that meditation, just a little bit of Frankincense essential oil and my third eye, or just smelling it straight from the bottle really helps to come my stress response.

Natalie K. Douglas 36:09
Yes. And you know, it’s interesting, because when you when you said that I was like, Oh, I do have mine. And mine was to do with meditation as well. But it’s actually a specific person on like, that I really enjoy guided meditations from her name’s Sarah Blunden. And she has the voice of what I imagine a hug would be like, voice just sounds like a warm hug. That’s all I can describe it as it’s just, it’s it’s softer, but certain and comforting. And I just love her. So I listened to her on insight timer, but she’s also YouTube, like, search for her on YouTube. And she has a bunch of ones that are on there as well. So I’ve really, really been enjoying that. And her voice and Definitely, yeah, getting back into meditations as well, I found it really, really helpful. And the other thing, I have two recommendations, sorry, because they’re kind of ish related. And I’ve been reading this book that was gifted to me by my friend. And it’s by Sharon Pearson. And it’s called ultimate you. And it’s a really, it’s quite a big book. But it’s just, I just really, really am enjoying it, I can’t even describe exactly what it’s about. It’s kind of like, I don’t know, just talking about how to become the best version of yourself, but talking about explaining all of the different ways that we are conditioned and how that plays out. And also how you can overcome that. And it’s really, it’s a really good book, like I recommend, you’re going to probably have to read it a couple of times to get everything out of it. It’s one of those ones that every page is got something really interesting in it. And there’s when you read it, there’s also little key takeaways at the end of each chapter, which I really liked. Because if for some reason you’re impatient, and you just want to read the key takeaways, not knowing myself, then you can also do that. So I’ve really been loving that.

Kate Callaghan 38:19
I just did a little Google search and it looks really good. Yeah, ultimate you heal reclaim become live your awesome life. Yes, your time your awesome life lies on the other side of uncertainty of fear of people pleasing and procrastination and self doubt, to discover the cause of what has held you back for too long and how to claim the life you deserve. What that looks good, and that is a much better

Natalie K. Douglas 38:39
description. Like, I know like it’s just a really good book,

Kate Callaghan 38:45
your invitation to start living life on the surface and start living life deep to embrace your emotional well being to step into your awesome life. Yes, I like it. I like it.

Natalie K. Douglas 38:57
All right, any final words, thoughts on things coming up that you need to let people know about? No, no Christmas. What do you What’s your favorite Christmas movie?

Kate Callaghan 0:31
Um, there is only one right option. Love Actually. Yes,

correct you.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:38
Yeah, I think I watch it every year. Yeah, to be honest. Lovely. Well, anyway, he is so fantastic. No ectrims. Although I do want to ask everybody, if you could please dm us with some questions or topic suggestions because we have a few in the pipeline. But I also just I don’t know, I have just this feeling or need to do a bit of a call out in terms of what else you guys want to hear us talking about. I don’t know why it just came up for me this morning. I was like, I’m just going to ask people to dm us again. So please, we haven’t done a q&a for a while I like, yeah, that’s fun. And we usually try and group similar questions together, because then it just makes more sense. But yeah, send us some questions or topic suggestions. Because I really love knowing that we’re actually answering and talking about what you actually want us to answer and talk about and even if we’ve talked about it before, happy to like, reopen the conversation. If it you know, we’ll take a slightly different spin on it. So hit a sister up, slide into our dams in the most appropriate way possible, not whatever you want. No. I appreciate you inappropriate. Yeah, it’s true. We do. All right. Well, happy playing everybody probably shouldn’t say that often inappropriate, but happy playing. And if you have any additional ways that you play as an adult, then also share them below the podcast link or the Instagram post for this one because I am always open to more ways to have fun.

Outro 2:17
Thanks for tuning in to the holistic nutritionist podcast. Remember, we love to make the show relevant to you. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to discuss, just submit them to podcast at naturally k Douglas calm and we’ll get them answered for you. Also, don’t forget to subscribe rate and review the podcast on iTunes and share it with a friend. And if you’re looking for more info about how it can accelerate your journey so optimal health you can find me Matt over at naturally high Douglas calm and case at the holistic nutritionist calm. See you next time.


The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast - with Natalie K. Douglas and Kate Callaghan

Welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast!

If a professional, polished, well-edited podcast is what you’re after…then we’re not for you!

But if you love unfiltered banter, unedited bloopers and authentic heart sharing then we are your ladies.

We also have the most practical tips on holistic and alternative health care too 😉

Have a question that you want answered on the podcast or want to be interviewed? Get in touch!


Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas ("Nat") is a Holistic Dietitian and Nutritionist dedicated to Thyroid, gut and hormone healing.

Nat shows stressed, burnt out, overwhelmed women how to value their worth again, change their mindset habits, prioritize healing, and reclaim their vitality. Guaranteed.

Her clients say she’s the right girl to see if you’ve tried the conventional approach and nothing has worked.

Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan is a Holistic Nutritionist, Personal Trainer and Lifestyle Coach who specializes in women's hormone healing.

She recognizes that there is no “one size fits all” diet or “magic bullet” which is going to cure all illnesses.

She focuses on having a thorough understanding of your personal goals, needs, likes/dislikes, support networks and lifestyle in order to create a food and lifestyle approach that suits YOU.


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