#8 Underactive Thyroids - What, Why & How to Fix Yours
The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast
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In Episode 8 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss how to fix your underactive Thyroid.
- What your thyroid does
- Signs and symptoms of an underachieve thyroid
- Accurate testing for assessing thyroid function
- Causes of an under active thyroid
- Nutrients to optimise thyroid function
- Carbohydrates and your thyroid
Natalie K. Douglas 0:02
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. My name is Natalie Bourke, Holistic Dietitian and Nutritionist from HealthByWholeFoods.com.au, and with me, I have my co-host, Kate, from TheHolisticNutritionist.com. How are you, Kate?
Kate Callaghan 0:17
I am fantastic, Nat. How are you?
Natalie K. Douglas 0:20
I’m good. I’m sitting down while we podcast once as opposed to standing up and wearing no pants like a few other episodes ago.
Kate Callaghan 0:29
Supposed to be wearing pants as am I wearing a bit cold.
Natalie K. Douglas 0:32
Oh, nice. Oh, for a second, I was gonna ask you the dumbest question. I was gonna say Oh, yeah, you’re having like a white Christmas this year but nevermind.
Kate Callaghan 0:41
Well, that’s not entirely dumb because it did snow here two days ago.
Natalie K. Douglas 0:45
Natalie K. Douglas
Wow. That’s exciting.
Kate Callaghan 0:48
Two, what are we, two days away from the summer and it snowed a couple of days ago.
Natalie K. Douglas 0:54
Wow. That’s, I think I’ve seen snow once when we went on a year 10 ski trip and I was really bad at skiing and I didn’t wear my glasses because at that stage, I was like, Oh, no glasses, is so on cool. I’ll just be blind instead and I ran into a tree, like legit ran and to skate into a tree and I was so embarrassed. I was just like, Yeah, right. So I’m just and then to make it worse. There were all these little kids around and they were like the most awesome skiers ever, you know, just like whizzed around and I was like, Why don’t you help me? Like, help a brother out. Anyway, what’s been happening with you, any, so is your, your course over Healing Hypothalamic Amenorrhea?
Kate Callaghan 1:39
Yeah. We finished it. We finished it this week. Yeah. Just two days ago, we finished it.
Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, well, it was very exciting.
It was amazing. So, so good. I’m actually a little bit sad that it ended, the girls are so fantastic and quite a few girls got their period back. One who hadn’t had it for 14 years and she pretty much given up on it, got her period back which was just mind-blowing. It was awesome. But they had to live other amazing changes as well. Like, I expected them to feel better in themselves mentally and emotionally. But a lot of them had like full-on epiphanies of I hate my job, I need to change and, and they they express that, you know, usually in the past I would have used running or exercise to hide from these emotions and just to literally run from the emotions. And now because they weren’t allowed to run, I do an intense exercise, they kind of needed to deal with their emotions. So it was quite confronting in one way, but really transformative and I did an interview with Maddy Moon who is freaking amazing. I’ve got a bit of a girl crush on her I think. Do you know who she is?
Natalie K. Douglas 2:46
I’ve seen her name around. But I can’t say that I know her personally, but I will do when I listened to your interview.
Kate Callaghan 2:49
Check her out Madelyn Moon, Maddy Moon. And she said you gotta you gotta feel it to heal it. And I think that’s so true.
Natalie K. Douglas 3:00
I also agree with that. I like that saying, oh, now I’m gonna forget it. No, no, I got it. I got it. I got it. I, Oh, no, no, I don’t got it. This is horrible. So it’s the, I’ll know it when I feel it as opposed as opposed to I know it when I’ll see it when I I’ll know it when I see it. I’ll see. Yeah, that’s the one.
Kate Callaghan 3:25
I will work on that one.
Natalie K. Douglas 3:26
Yeah, we’ll practice that for next week guys just wanted to.
Kate Callaghan 3:29
Maybe it’s lots of editing.
Natalie K. Douglas 3:36
Well, I’m a couple of weeks away from launching my first e-book which is on Healing Digestive Discomfort. So it’s basically an e-book that stepping through stepping people through different gut conditions. So things like SIBO, FODMAP intolerances, parasites, leaky gut, general dysbiosis, all that kind of jazz going on in the gut and how to, I guess, go through the symptoms of what you would experience under each condition and also have to get an accurate diagnosis. So what tests to use, and then also a bit into treatment. So where to find the right treatment, and what kind of strategies have been helpful for me and for clients in a similar situation. So, and it does have a few gut-healing recipes in there, I think they’re about six or seven. So it’s more information-based and it is really a book that I wish I’d read a long time ago when I was, you know, in the middle of having all these horrible gut issues, and I just, I just I spent so much money trying to find out what was wrong and so my aim with this book was just to really give people a straight line as to where to go to get the right treatment, given the symptoms that you have. And you know, some things will crossover in terms of symptoms with different conditions. But for the most part, people will be able to at least pinpoint one or two things that it could be and it’s so much easier to seek treatment when you’ve got that.
Kate Callaghan 5:12
You’ve got something like an awesome resource.
Natalie K. Douglas 5:13
Yeah. But on to today’s podcast. So what we’re talking about today is the thyroid. So I’ll read out our disclaimer first before I forget because that often happens. So the advice given in this podcast is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from your primary healthcare physician. The facts and information offered are based on a combination of scientific evidence, clinical practice experience, and personal experience. So in saying that, so I guess what we want to do is not overwhelm you with too much information, but just give you a basic starting point as to why the thyroid is important, how to test if yours is working properly and that and also give you a bit of an idea or symptoms. So we are going to focus on an underactive thyroid, because it’s much more common, and much more. Yeah, I guess common would be the best word. So it will be able to help the most people. But if anyone listens, listening in and they have an overactive thyroid, and they’re like, Why don’t you talk about that, then we are happy to do an episode on that as well. But we just thought we’d focus on, on one side of it today. So Kate, did you want to talk us through a bit of a few of maybe the clinical symptoms that people might feel if they have an underactive thyroid?
Kate Callaghan 6:38
I surely can. So I guess we should probably start by saying what the thyroid gland is. So, thyroid gland is a little butterfly-shaped gland in your neck, and sometimes you can feel it, but you really shouldn’t be able to feel it too protruding too much. If it is protruding too much, that can be a sign of something called goiter. And we can talk about that but…
Natalie K. Douglas 7:00
It’s not the singer.
Natalie K. Douglas
I was just letting everyone know it’s not the singer. I don’t even know if that’s, I don’t think that’s actually their name, it might be a song. Sorry, keep going.
Kate Callaghan 7:04
I’m so out of the loop with all the pop culture stuff.
Natalie K. Douglas
It’s okay, some are Moolah. It will probably be mean when I really listen to it.
Okay, so the thyroid, basically is in your neck and it controls pretty much all of your metabolism throughout your body. Every single cell is reliant on thyroid or its metabolism, okay. And temperature regulation, so when you think of metabolism, we usually think about weight. So yes, it is important for weight management but also for temperature regulation, for bowel movements, for healthy reproductive function, for healthy gut function, for healthy mental function. Everything really is dependent on a healthy thyroid. So some symptoms of low thyroid function or underactive thyroid can be depression or low mood, fatigue, constipation, dry skin, cold hands and feet, hair falling out, thinning out of thirds of your eyebrows, weight gain or difficulty losing weight, trouble with menstrual cycles and infertility, poor nail growth. Anything else that you can think of?
Natalie K. Douglas 8:33
Sometimes, like so low libido and then if you measure as Kate said it regulates your temperature. So if you measure, if you’re someone who’s measuring your temperature, which can be which a lot of people are doing. If they’re trying to investigate whether it’s an issue, then a low basal body temperature is often detected, impaired methylation, which you probably wouldn’t know if you hadn’t done any testing, or if you weren’t aware of clinical symptoms, so probably not a really obvious one but just for anyone who is well versed in that area sometimes anemia can come up and I think that memory loss.
Kate Callaghan 9:17
Your brain fog.
Natalie K. Douglas
I have underactive thyroid.
Natalie K. Douglas 9:22
Yeah, I’ve had one as well.
Natalie K. Douglas
Very fun times, especially when you’re supposed to be focused for everything in life.
Kate Callaghan 9:33
Exactly. Exactly. It makes it a little bit hard. I had an underactive thyroid before I went into pregnancy with Olivia, and so I had to get my thyroid tested every six weeks and I hate blood tests. Hate hate hate blood tests. Oh much, we talked about testing,
Natalie K. Douglas 9:49
Yes. So it is really important to order the right tests when you’re trying to assess whether the thyroid is the problem, is the cause of all your symptoms. So a lot of the time only one marker is, I guess, assessed by your doctor and that of most commonly, TSH, thyroid-stimulating hormone, and this is the hormone that’s released by the pituitary gland and is the most common measure of thyroid function. It essentially tells your body how much of the other hormones to produce, so elevated levels indicate an underactive thyroid, while low levels indicate an overactive thyroid, which might sound confusing, but just try and remember it somehow. But anyway, so this, you know, this could be normal. However, you might still have an underactive thyroid, if that makes sense or not really an underactive thyroid, but a problem with your thyroid, because the things that are most important to measure are actually free T4 which, I guess the simplest description of that is inactive thyroid hormone, and free T3, which is the active form of thyroid, thyroid hormone. The other two or three important measures are reverse T3. So this hormone actually binds irreversibly to T4, and is not an active form of thyroid hormone. So basically, it it, it is inactive, and it can’t be converted to an active form, then we also have thyroid antibodies. So these are really important to get done and sometimes these are actually even elevated before you see a change in the other in TSH. So it’s something that you should make sure that is measured and it is testing for whether your body’s immune system is, is attacking itself, like is attacking the thyroid gland. Then we also have thyroid-binding globulin and this is a marker of the protein that carries thyroid hormone around your body before it’s released into cells and allowed to, I guess, exhibit its action on your body. So when you are, so these are all tests that you can get done by your GP, but you just have to know what to ask for. Because if you go in there and you say I, you know, you say the symptoms of low thyroid that you’re having, they’ll be like, okay, no, but no, I shouldn’t say all of them, most of them will be like, okay, no worries, we’ll test your TSH, and it may come back normal. And if you did further testing, you may actually find that I, I’ve really low levels of T3 and T3 is the one that is active, that’s the one that is having the effect in your cells and doing the job that we want it to do. So then I think the next thing we should talk about is also another tool, which we’ve talked about in the past, actually, which is body temperature tracking. So we, I think, I don’t remember what podcast it was, but I’ll put it in the show notes. I’ll reference which podcast it was that we were talking about this. And Kate also has a really good post on tracking your body temperature. But this is another thing that could be really helpful in assessing whether your thyroid function is suboptimal. So just getting a digital thermometer and measuring your basal body temperature. So your body temperature, when you very first wake up before you move out of bed, just have it sitting next to your bedside table and measure it then and just keep a track of it. And if that is low, like chronically low, then that’s when you would say that’s when I would go and get some further testing. And then there are you can test also for, for a kind of like the the nutrients that help to convert T4 to T3. However, it’s not as common. So those are things like iodine, selenium, and thyroxine, but that would probably be one of the last things I do, I would I would go to my doctor and get the tests we mentioned above first, would you agree with that, Kate?
Kate Callaghan 14:00
Yeah, absolutely. And just a couple of extra bits. So when you get into thyroid antibodies, but I’ve noticed sometimes lately, for some reason, some doctors do only test one type of antibodies. So there’s two types of antibodies it’s TPO, which is thyroid peroxidase enzyme in the antibody, so, and thyroglobulin antibodies. The ranges on the lab tests are very broad. So you could have a TSH of, you know, four, and it would still be in the normal range. And to me that is indicating a really underactive thyroid. I like to see TSH around one, but obviously, like see T4 and T3 as well in in that whole context and reverse T3, if possible. So just be really firm in saying I want these tests. And if they say no, go and get another doctor especially if you have those other signs and symptoms, and especially if your basal body temperatures are measuring low. I, when I’m looking in basal body temperatures if for over a month, you have seen more than four or five temperatures under about 36.4 degrees Celsius or 97.5 degrees Fahrenheit that can indicate a low thyroid.
Natalie K. Douglas 15:16
Yeah, and I think that’s a really important point on making sure that you are firm in saying these are the tests I want because I guess from a practitioner standpoint when I have clients come to me, and I’ve sent them away and said, you know, you should like get your GP to test these. And then they come back and they say or, you know, I, he wasn’t too keen on testing this. So I only have these markers. It’s it’s really quite hard for us to do our job then when we don’t have all of the information. So usually when, I don’t know about you, Kate, but I try to, like I try to only get people to do the tests that I really need. And I feel like will really changed the the outcome or the way I would treat them. So I think thyroid is one of those ones, it’s really important that you get that whole picture because it’s something that can so easily be missed if you only half-heartedly do the, do the test, I guess.
Kate Callaghan 16:12
Definitely. I’d rather see thyroid function than like cholesterol. cholesterol.
Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, I agree. Thyroid all the way, which, anyway…
Well, actually, on that note if your cholesterol is high, low thyroid function can be a cause of that.
Natalie K. Douglas 16:28
Yes, indeed, it can. So just test your thyroid, everybody. And then on to, I think before we get into foods that are helpful for optimizing thyroid function, I just wanted to touch on I guess some causes of low thyroid function if you don’t have an autoimmune condition. So the thyroid gland, it’s really sensitive. So often it’s one of the things that gets thrown off during times of stress. If you have excess, like excess estrogen, if you’re overtraining, if you have poor sleep, if you’re not eating enough, or you’re chronic dieter. I know Kate, I see a lot in people with HPA axis dysregulation or adrenal fatigue and I also see it with people if they have poor liver detoxification. I can’t think of too many other places but do you have anything to add to that?
Kate Callaghan 17:31
No, that’s it. I would say inadequate carbohydrates as well. And we talked about that, didn’t we?
Natalie K. Douglas 17:36
Yeah, definitely. So I guess let’s jump into that then. So thyroids, foods to help with optimizing your thyroid function. I’ll give you a couple. I’ll start with iodine. So, iodine is a mineral and it’s found in, well it’s found in, I think in Australia, or at like out, we use iodized salt. So if you’re eating processed food, or bread or things like that, then yes, you will be getting some iodine. However, I know a lot of our listeners, more of unprocessed food, whole foods, a bunch of lovely people and you guys, unless you’re eating plenty of sea vegetables, then a lot of the time we aren’t getting enough iodine. So that’s something to be aware of. And iodine is really important in the conversion of T4 so the inactive thyroid hormone to T3. So something to be mindful of. I know I was actually iodine-deficient not that long ago, because I hadn’t been eating with any iodized salt or packaged and processed food, nor had I been making an effort to use like things like Kelp flakes or Nori or Dulse flakes, any of the seaweed type food. So Kate, do you find that sometimes you have to kind of remind yourself that hey, I’m not eating iodized salt, so I should probably source iodine somewhere else?
Kate Callaghan 19:05
I’m not eating bread.
Natalie K. Douglas 19:06
Yeah. What do I do, I will die.
Kate Callaghan 19:09
I don’t. Only because I’m breastfeeding at the moment. So I’m still taking an iodine supplement. But if I wasn’t been, Yes, do you know what I found the other day was some kelp chips that had been roasted in coconut oil. And they were so good and Olivia love them.
Natalie K. Douglas
They were really good. Local New Zealand, New Zealand grown, New Zealand water grown kelp chips. Delicious. I’m gonna get some more after this.
Natalie K. Douglas 19:36
You should definitely send some so I can try them. Thank you. Oh, No, I’m sure they’re in Australia somewhere.
Kate Callaghan 19:43
Yeah, if you’re not eating packaged processed foods, then you do need to be mindful of having sea vegetables definitely. Supplementation is tricky with thyroid issues. If you have an autoimmune condition, I wouldn’t supplement with iodine unless you know that you’re deficient in iodine because it can flare up autoimmune thyroid conditions.
Natalie K. Douglas 20:04
Yeah. So, that’s again comes back to, you can do testing with iodine but usually it’s it’s still Yeah, just don’t supplement until you know a bit more or you’re under the guidance of a health practitioner. But if you are, if you are deficient, then there is definitely a reason to supplement and there’s, there’s kind of there’s a really broad school of thought on how much iodine you should supplement neither I just like to take it on an individual basis and look at people salt situation. So it’s something else just randomly that I just thought of while we’re talking about iodine is sometimes really, if you’re really heavily if you’re holding a lot of water, sometimes supplementing with iodine can actually help with that if it’s related to if you have poor estrogen receptor, receptor sensitivity. That’s just one other thing to keep in mind. But again, not wouldn’t be something you would just go out and be like, Oh my god, I’m bloated. I’m going to take iodine, it’s just another thing to consider when you’re working with a practitioner to maybe mentioned it to them, Hey, can you test if to see if my iodine is low to see if maybe that’s contributing to me holding excess water? So just something I learned not that long ago, actually. Anyway, moving on. Selenium is another one. And that, again, is involved in the conversion of T4 to T3 and Selenium is one that’s really easy to get in, just have, you know, two to three Brazil nuts a day, and you’re sweet. So that that’s a good one. Kate, did you want to talk about carbohydrates?
Kate Callaghan 21:43
I love talking about carbs. So why not?
Natalie K. Douglas
I did use to be a low carb fiend.
Natalie K. Douglas 21:50
I know, we both were at uni. And then like, kind of remember, you started like steering away for and I was like Oh, does she going to eat carbs? Maybe I should try this.
Kate Callaghan 22:01
She mixed a lot of sweet potato, I’m jealous.
Natalie K. Douglas 22:02
Yeah, we’ve come a long way. That was very many, many moons ago.
Kate Callaghan 22:08
So basically, our thyroid gland. So for the conversion of T4 to T3. The inactive hormone, thyroid hormone to the active hormone, thyroid hormone. Insulin is required to trigger that. And so insulin is the hormone that’s released when we consume carbohydrates and it also signals to your brain. It kind of gives it a signal of energy abundance and when your thyroid gets that signal of energy abundance, then it can continue to hum along and not feel that it needs to slow down and conserve energy. So if we’re not consuming carbohydrates, we’re going to not be getting that much of an insulin response, we’re not going to get that energy abundance signal and thyroid production can slow down. So carbs are the thing and as I’ve mentioned before, I think I mentioned before, somewhere in the e-course, carbs are really important for gut health as well. So for feeding your gut bacteria, and there is some conversion of T4 to T3 in the gut, so if your gut isn’t healthy, that’s going to affect your thyroid function as well. This will sound really controversial but if you have an underactive thyroid, something that can help first thing in the morning, especially if you have amenorrhea as well. First thing in the morning, or even adrenal issues, maybe, No, not adrenal issues not that just thyroid issues. First thing in the morning having a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice because it is going to provide you with that quick shot of glucose and insulin and giving you your brain that automatic signal of energy, abundance of glucose to convert it to connect with the thyroid and to get the thyroid humming along a little bit more. I have found that that works wonders for a lot of people, especially with fertility issues. So freshly squeezed orange juice.
Natalie K. Douglas 23:58
And any kind of quantity around it or?
Kate Callaghan 24:01
Just a glass.
Natalie K. Douglas 24:02
Just a glass. Awesome. Yeah, I like I think what happens is when people a lot of the time, one of the major reasons why people suspect the thyroid issue is is the like weight loss resistance or even weight gain. And I think because there’s such a heavy message around carbohydrates are bad. If you’re trying to lose weight, people feel that and just go chronically low carb, and they’re so scared of adding carbohydrates back in that it really, it’s doing them such a disservice to their weight loss goals. Because at it like, as you’re saying it’s, carbohydrates are so important in I guess having that healthy thyroid function and not putting additional stress on your body. So I would say don’t be, don’t be scared to add back in carbohydrates, if you’ve been going low carb for a very long time and on finding that, you know, if you’re someone who has weight loss goals, and it’s just not happening, then try like don’t keep doing the same thing. Try adding some more carbohydrates in and see how you go so, and don’t be so stingy as to just you know, adding like a piece of sweet potato, like, you know, don’t don’t go all out straight away because you will digestively feel pretty uncomfortable if you haven’t been eating that for a while, but start to tie trade-off and see how you go and see how you feel. Another group of people that often have fearful of carbohydrates and do show a lot of these type of signs of low thyroid function are CrossFit athletes. I work with a lot and a lot of them are still fearful of carbs despite the amount of training that they’re doing. And a lot of people feel perform and look a lot better when they do add some more in and a lot of their symptoms of low thyroid function go away as well. So that’s just something to be mindful of.
Kate Callaghan 25:57
Absolutely, low carb diets should be reserved for therapeutic purposes.
Natalie K. Douglas 26:02
Yes, like neurological conditions.
Kate Callaghan 26:05
Yeah, diabetes. Sometimes in obesity, there’s insulin resistance, polycystic ovarian syndrome, the therapeutic intervention, so it doesn’t necessarily mean lifelong. Just because little Johnny down the street is doing a low carb diet and it’s working for him doesn’t mean that you should do it too.
Natalie K. Douglas 26:21
Yeah, do not listen to little Johnny down the street.
Kate Callaghan 26:24
He’s a liar.
Natalie K. Douglas
He is, he’s secretly eating sweet potatoes.
Considerate of not avoiding carbs. Make sure you’re eating enough calories as well. So if you’re under-eating calories, that’s going to slow everything down your thyroid will get that signal which is insufficient energy and so it’ll slow metabolism down and just mess everything up. So eat your food. Don’t risk your calories. 1200 calorie diet which is dumb.
Natalie K. Douglas 26:51
No, they’re really are like I don’t think I’ve ever since I’ve been practicing I don’t think I’ve ever, ever put someone on that low of calories. It’s just not necessary for anything. Any purpose in life.
Kate Callaghan 27:06
I don’t think I’ve always been I’ve always put people on more food.
Natalie K. Douglas 27:10
Yeah, me too. I would say that. I don’t. Yeah, I was just thinking about that the other day. I don’t think I’ve ever someone has ever come to me. And I’ve been like, look, I think you’re eating too much like I would and I work with mainly females and I would say like, yeah, literally all of them are not eating enough. Sometimes they’re like I’ve probably had a handful of people that are eating enough but maybe just not eating the right types of foods or not the best quality of food but never have I ever had someone who was eating too much which is I find actually quite interesting that that that happens and it hasn’t I’d say the males that I’ve that have come to see me over the years. Most of them are eating enough but it’s more about quality for them.
Kate Callaghan 27:57
Definitely, on that note though, I didn’t have a client who’s eating really good quality food. Love the macadamia and then she’s probably probably eat a few macadamias a week. Did you know how much? It’s probably a kilo a week.
Natalie K. Douglas
You better probably probably close a bit awaken.
Natalie K. Douglas 28:11
Yeah and your gut. Oh, if I ate too many nuts, my gut is not happy.
Kate Callaghan 28:17
Well, a kilo of macadamia, macadamia is a 20, 20 calories per macadamia.
Natalie K. Douglas 28:27
Yeah. They’re expensive, too.
They are. I love them.
Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, me too. Macadamias when they’re like salty, salty fat is, oh yum. Anyway, sorry.
Kate Callaghan 28:39
Anything that’s going to heal your gut will also heal your thyroid. So I think we did a whole episode in gut, didn’t we?
Natalie K. Douglas 28:45
Yes, we did.
Kate Callaghan 28:47
Yeah. So go back to that, we don’t need to.
Natalie K. Douglas 28:50
Yeah, we don’t need to go over it again. But yes, there is an episode on gut health because the conversion obviously, happens partly in the gut, also in liver health. So don’t ignore the health of your liver. And we have also done a bit of a post note, we did a podcast on liver detoxification. And so there you go look at us being well prepared and in order. So you can go back and listen to the gut health and the liver health podcast. And both of those are going to help you to optimize your thyroid function.
Natalie K. Douglas
All right. Well, I think we covered most of what we wanted to, so we will start to wrap it up. But Kate, was there anything else you wanted to make listeners aware of or anything like that?
Kate Callaghan 29:38
I’ll be launching my next HA course at the start of February 2017.
Natalie K. Douglas
So list for that if you want to be.
Natalie K. Douglas 29:47
Okay. And it’s just by your website for them to…
Kate Callaghan 29:51
Natalie K. Douglas
A free, a free Boost Your Body Image, e-book, when you sign up to my newsletter, my very sporadic newsletter.
Natalie K. Douglas 30:05
Excellent, you need to be on that list. You just sold it right there. No, you really do. Alright, awesome. And for me, I guess just keep an eye out for my e-book, which should be released in the next few weeks. But I will do a bit of a post on my social media accounts and also my websites when that is available. So if anyone has gut issues that they just haven’t been able to resolve, then that’s a really good source of information for you as well. So please do keep an eye out for that. But we will be back in a fortnight’s time with another topic. We haven’t decided yet. So if you guys do have any ideas or any things that you do want to hear about them, please do let us know so we can speak about things that you’re interested in hearing as opposed to things we just enjoy ranting on about, which is most things in the health world. So I think we’ll close up there. Thank you everyone for listening and hope y’all have a great day. Bye, Kate.
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