In Episode 62 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss how to control Thyroid during pregnancy and the best treatment for SIBO.

• Tips for dealing with peri menopause and night sweats
• Ideas for eating more organ meats in pregnancy and pate safety in pregnancy
• Healing HA and exercise appropriateness
• What you can do if your doctor refuses to test your thyroid properly
• The impact of thyroid issues in pregnancy/fertility
• What foods need to be eliminated in Hashimoto’s
• Why you still have gut symptoms even with a negative stool test
• SIBO treatment and testing (for those of you with IBS)
• Thoughts on the low FODMAP diet
• Thoughts on the low FODMAP diet 
• Microwaves safety

Are you looking for 1-to-1 support and a step-by-step healing process to overcome your:

• • chronic gut health issues? Take a look at my signature program, “Gut Rescue” today.
  • debilitating Thyroid issues? Take a look at my signature program, “Thyroid Rescue” today

Intro 0:00
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, with your hosts Natalie K. Douglas, Thyroid Healer, and Kate Callaghan, The Holistic Nutritionist. Nat and Kate are degree-qualified dietitians and nutritionists, certified fitness instructors, speakers, and authors. If you love unfiltered banter, unedited bloopers, and authentic heart-sharing, then we are your ladies! Now it’s time to sit back, relax, and get ready for our latest tips on living your healthiest life possible.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:34
Hey, guys! Welcome back to the episode we don’t know. We were just discussing that we should pop-up the episode up us on there. Kate, what’s happening?

Kate Callaghan 0:45
I have to admit these things. We can pretend we know.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:49
I can’t. I’m a terrible liar. I’m like that liar were like, you give way too much information like when I was you know didn’t do my homework from school or something. It’s been like oh, sorry, like my mom’s sister’s dog was over and it like was eating chewy, what are those things called?

Kate Callaghan 1:07
Chews. Dog chews.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:08
Yeah, but there’s like a brand, Snack. Snack a dude, Snackaroo,

Kate Callaghan
I’ve got not idea.

Natalie K. Douglas
No, that’s human food. Oh, my God. If someone knows, please tell me or it’s going to kill me. Smackers? Smockers? I don’t know, someone name it. Someone needs to comment on that, anyway.

Kate Callaghan
There it goes. Dogs go Wacho for Schmachos.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, yeah, Schmachos. Anyway, now I’ve ruined my story. Anyway, I’m just one of those people that gives way too much information when I’m trying to lie.

Kate Callaghan 1:33
People like yeah, I get that.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:42
Yeah, oh, my God. Too funny. Anyway, um, any updates, Kate? We haven’t we haven’t done a podcast together in so long. I’ve missed speaking to you and recording ourselves.

Kate Callaghan 1:53
Any updates? Well, I just got back from Sydney. And I saw you in Sydney, which was fabulous. And we got to do a little workshop together at the grounds in Alexandria, which is a very cool place with a very cool bird. But it was awesome to go there for the doTERRA Australia and Zealand convention to learn all about the new products, and to learn all about their charity work and their co-impact sourcing and how they’re supporting farmers in developing countries, and building medical centers and schools, and access to freshwater. It’s it’s really quite incredible to see all of the things that they’re doing, the second day, I spent pretty much in tears the whole day.

Natalie K. Douglas 2:31
Amazing, I don’t blame you. I would too. I’ve seen like, their charity stuff is just incredible. And I think you know, and especially when you go to like convention and things like that, it’s every time that those kind of events, it’s so powerful. Even just the collective energy in a room like that. I feel it when I go to, you know, other symposiums or conventions and stuff. It’s so nice to bring people together.

Kate Callaghan 2:58
Yeah, so awesome. And we get to do it than the gala and get dressed up but it was on the first night so we got all beautiful in the first night and then it was just a downhill slope from there really, anticlimax, but yeah, it’s cool. So we were there with you know, just a small 5000 other people.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, yeah, just a few people.

Kate Callaghan
Just decided you want to go?

Natalie K. Douglas 3:21
Yeah, that’s all right. Back home to just your children and are your husband coming in and out that’s why.

Kate Callaghan 3:30
But yeah, so my full month stint of traveling around is coming to an end and I’m going to looking forward to bit more chill-out time during June really. I’m just gonna stay put and spend a little bit more time with the fam bam.

Natalie K. Douglas 3:42
Nice. Yeah, you have done a lot of traveling.

Kate Callaghan 3:45
Yeah, I have, which has been awesome. It’s been awesome to get out there and actually meet people throughout New Zealand and Australia and people who have been following me on Instagram or Facebook and have been really intrigued and wanting to try essential oils but like yeah, I get that you like them, but I kind of want to smell them first.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Kate Callaghan
Totally understandable. So, I will be traveling around a little bit more, but I’ve got to have a bit of downtime first.

Natalie K. Douglas 4:12
That sounds acceptable. I would agree that after some travel you’d want some downtime. I really don’t like hotels at the moment. I stayed in one on the weekend. And like none of them that I stay in have windows and I’m like where do you get your fresh air? But I can’t say that to them, obviously.

Kate Callaghan 4:30
Do you know, I think in all of my travel I don’t think I stayed in a hotel. I stayed with the other people in my community in the house which there’s awesome air.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, that’s so nice.

Kate Callaghan
And like getting Airbnb’s and stayed in some pretty cool Airbnb’s and I stayed in a dock house in Mt. Cook village, which was basically right at the foot of Mt. Cook, which was incredible.

Natalie K. Douglas
Wow.

Kate Callaghan
That was incredible. I tried to take photos, but my phone just did not do a justice.

Natalie K. Douglas 4:56
Wow, that’s really cool. Yeah, I know, and I usually stay in Airbnb’s but I just went to a conference in Melbourne and I just stayed in the hotel because I was by myself and I get lost really easily which sounds like like, I’m not even kidding, like really easily. And so, and I was already feeling a bit anxious. So I was like, I’ll just stay where the actual convention or symposium whatever it is because and like, not go too far because I legit can’t get home guys. It’s a real. The struggle is so real. And like someone’s like, why don’t you buy like something to help you? And I’m like, I have maps on my phone. I don’t know how much more help you can get to someone’s ready to go. I still can’t even deal.

Kate Callaghan 5:40
What, where you at? Was that the BioCeuticals?

Natalie K. Douglas 5:43
No, it was an ACNEM. So it’s the one we go where all the integrative doctors go and gather and naturopaths and stuff and nutritionists and dietitians go as well, but it’s very much dominated by integrative doctors, which is nice. So, it was like, well, if I have an anxiety attack from getting lost, at least someone here will know what to do.

Kate Callaghan 6:02
And what was your biggest takeaway from that?

Natalie K. Douglas 6:07
To be honest, it’s funny, I go to all of these conventions and seminars and symposiums and it really comes back. I mean, the research is very interesting and they do talk about a lot of stuff that’s more complex in a lot of ways but it comes back to the basics of like, reduce inflammation, regulate blood sugar, get people to eat real food, try and individualize and, you know, treat the root cause and address the gut, like it’s all just comes back to what we do day in and day out in clinic. But it just happens to be backed up by more and more research as time goes on and on and on. But it’s yeah, it’s kind of like, I’m like, should I keep paying lots of money to go to these things that I complain, and I’m like, okay, cool. So, I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing. But it’s a really good opportunity to network and, and also so to be reassured that you are doing the right thing and to yeah, understand what researcher’s emerging because to be honest, like, I mean, every now and again, I’ll jump back into the research, but most of my time is spent treating people these days like and doing some further education in more of a practical sense, but I don’t anymore spend hours and hours looking at research just because it’s not what is going to get the people results like it’s actually doing the practical stuff with them and all that kind of stuff, but yeah, so good, but same, same takeaways, as usual.

Kate Callaghan 7:38
Same girl, different eyebrows?

Natalie K. Douglas 7:46
Yeah, I’ve never heard that before. I love eyebrows. There’s a, there’s a friend of my, my husband’s who like, Cohovan doesn’t listen to this. Anyway, he like, loves eyebrows. He’s like obsessed with eyebrows and like that’s so funny and I feel really self-conscious whenever like I’ve met him because like all my eyebrows are okay today because I like.

Kate Callaghan
You have a brow finish.

Natalie K. Douglas
My eye, yeah, like my eyebrows go real fast, and I’m.

Kate Callaghan 8:05
What do you mean? Oh, they grow fast.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
What you said like going fast? What do you mean in your eyebrows? I got a very funny visuals like, your eyebrows are like these little caterpillars across your face.

Natalie K. Douglas 8:17
No, they grow real fast. And like, I’m one of those people who’s like, oh, I’ll just wait and like, go to the beautician and get them to like wax them but I live away too long. And I mean, I’ve got like, so many eyebrow hairs in like, not necessarily like a motor brow but just didn’t like the other place where the eyebrows are.

Kate Callaghan 8:37
Okay, so we’re going to get into some questions.

Natalie K. Douglas 8:45
Yeah, we are. Yeah, we are. Sorry, everybody. Okay, well, we are going to get into some questions. So today we’re talking about, well we took a bunch of questions from you guys. And we’ve broken them down into a few areas. So we’re going to break them down into questions that were related to hormones, some questions that related to thyroid health, and ones that related to gut health. And then there was one that just wasn’t really related to anything, but if we get to it, we will definitely answer it. If not, then we will answer it next time. So the first area we’re going to start in is hormones. So the first question was basically just someone writing in and asking for tips for perimenopause and night sweats, which, Kate, I’ll get your tips in a second but what I thought would be important to do was to talk a little a little bit about what’s happening in perimenopause. And basically, the way I like to explain it to people are that your ovaries are starting to slowly shut up shop and retire, basically. But think of your ovaries during this time as like the Type A workaholic that relaxes for a bit and then all of a sudden, they’re opening up a new business, moving house, and adopting 10 cats. So they’re kind of like, out of action, and then not not producing much estrogen, and then all of a sudden, they’re back they’re back on and you know, then they go to yoga and realize they don’t need to do that and relax again and then the cycle continues. So, it’s kind of like a roller coaster. And that’s how a lot of perimenopausal women feel. Fun fact, I actually went through menopause when I was like, 18 when I had HA, like I had no hormones, and me and my mom were getting like night sweats and hot flashes at the same time. I laugh, it’s not funny, but it was funny. Anyway, so what’s important about what I just mentioned with the estrogen roller coaster, is that, you know, you will be highly symptomatic. And often your your symptoms will be worse if your adrenal function isn’t optimal because what happens is the adrenals generally pick up the slack of the ovaries in in terms of like stimulating sex hormone production, and if you are underslept, and I know, stressed out, which is, you know, so many of us, then it makes that job a lot harder. So, I guess that brings us to well, what should we do about it? So Kate, do you want to start with a suggestion in relation to what people should do if they are going through perimenopause and perhaps are getting symptoms like night sweats?

Kate Callaghan 11:25
Yeah, and I think that was a, a very interesting analogy. A good one, interesting. And what you said about you’re going through menopause when you have HA, or HA I get in trouble for saying H, I shouldn’t say H, HA. I actually have a lot of women in my course and clients with hypothalamic amenorrhea who struggle with the night sweats because it is kind of similar to that perimenopause, menopause because your hormones are flatlining, your estrogen is so low and often you cortisol is quite high, which contributes like both of those can contribute to the night sweats, and I see that even with with clients whose estrogen might be normal, but they’re really stressed out. And though that elevated cortisol which can contribute to blood sugar swings throughout the night, can cause night sweats as well. So as you, as your cortisol goes up, kind of in the middle of the night, your blood sugar can drop and all kinds of crazy stuff, night sweats, but in terms of what to do, the biggest thing to focus on and Nat you alluded to it with perimenopause and menopause. The biggest thing you need to focus on is stress management because your adrenals are taking over and what you want to do is nourish that production of sex hormones of estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, from your adrenal glands, and minimize the output of your stress hormones so cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline because that cortisol, those stress hormones are going to be made at the expense of your sex hormones. So the more stress management techniques you can introduce in your life, the better that balance is going to be and the more production of sex hormones you’re going to maximize. So incorporating things like meditation daily, I really love the 1 Giant Mind app. I already love legs up the wall pose it’s a Viparita Karani, was it? Getting a bit fancy.

Natalie K. Douglas 13:24
I just called it legs up the wall pose. It’s my favorite. I love it.

Kate Callaghan 13:27
You’re a yoga instructor. How do you not know that?

Natalie K. Douglas 13:31
I choose not to put to the Sanskrit names.

Kate Callaghan 13:35
I didn’t put through this. I said as exactly how it is. Whatever, whatever. Anyway, just get your legs at the wall at night.

Natalie K. Douglas 13:45
Go to sleep with you with your feet down just.

Kate Callaghan 13:49
Well yes, say there for like 5 to 10 minutes. Your feet to kind of go a bit numb, but hang out there and just breathe, read a book, try not to play on your phone because that’s kind of stressful. In the morning, if you can practice some deep belly breathing all throughout the day if you feel yourself getting stressed throughout the day, practice that deep belly breathing. So placing your hands on your belly, as you inhale, you feel your belly rise, as you exhale, you feel your belly pull. So a big focus on stress management. I know that sounds like I want a pill but really, it is number one. If you want a pill there are a few things. So one thing that I have, I really loved introducing into people’s diet and my own diet as well to help balance estrogens and help with detoxification is broccoli sprout powder. So it’s a really good source of sulforaphane and diindolylmethane which is really wonderful for supporting that detoxification and managing estrogen balance and estrogen dominance. Very easy to incorporate in your life, you can chunk it into a smoothie, that’s probably the easiest way to do it. You can just scale it down with a bit of water. Do you use broccoli sprouts?

Natalie K. Douglas 15:04
Yeah, I do. I use that or in some people, I will actually use DIM like the supplement.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
And sometimes calcium d’glucarate as well, which is working a little bit differently. It’s, it’s kind of finding up. Well, it’s it’s helping clear your estrogen as well. That’s the easiest way. I was going to go into the science but it really isn’t relevant, just it helps bind up estrogen as well. So DIM is more working on phase one detoxification, and sorry, phase two detoxification and calcium d’glucarate is more like, actually what happens is in your gut, if estrogen is unconjugated as in something called beta-glucuronidase breaks that bond, then estrogen recirculates and calcium d’glucarate stops that from happening. So it helps your estrogen still continue to move out of your body. So you kind of so, if you use both, then you’re supporting, you know, estrogen detox in two ways, but honestly, broccoli sprouts are awesome. And I definitely have recommended those at some stages as well. It really just depends on the client as to what I do and what else I’m trying to give them because sometimes it’s easier. I’ve got a few supplements that might have a couple of things in one and it might contain broccoli sprouts, and therefore I don’t give them DIM but yeah, you know that was like such a.

Kate Callaghan 16:31
If there’s if there’s anyone who loves all the nerd talk and the science around it, I really encourage you to look up Dr. Rhonda Patrick. She’s incredible and really upstate with the research around broccoli sprout powder, brussels sprout powder, sulforaphanes, and all of this. Very, very nerdy, but awesome. So, Dr. Rhonda Patrick.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:53
That’s a really good recommendation. And also I love brussels sprouts and I got so excited because I saw them in season the other day I can’t wait to eat them.

Kate Callaghan
You’re a weirdo.

Natalie K. Douglas
I know.

Kate Callaghan 17:06
A few other tips, essential oils, Clary Sage essential oil is really good at balancing estrogens. Clary Calm, the blend of essential oils, the women’s monthly blend can be great for this period of life, the perimenopause. Postmenopause, I’d be looking more at a blend called Whisper which is a combination of oils that are supportive of hormones as well. I’d also look at some oils that are going to support stress management. So frankincense, lavender, aroma touch, bergamot. If you get those hot flashes, peppermint on the tips of your ears can be wonderful for cooling down in that moment.

Natalie K. Douglas
I love that.

Kate Callaghan
That would be my big tips there.

Natalie K. Douglas 17:46
I like it, I’m going to add a couple. So in terms of supplements, totally on board with everything you said there. The other things that I often use would be magnesium, and activated B, zinc, and vitamin C, they’re really kind of nutrients that are going to support in multiple areas of that whole situation and I find it works really well. You can also use taurine or GABBA but so taurine works with magnesium basically to help to produce GABBA, which is that your calm, relax hormone that sometimes can be compromised as your progesterone levels for during this time. There’s mixed science on whether on the effectiveness of GABBA in supplement form. Personally, I find it works great for some and doesn’t do anything for other people. So it’s just a matter of trying it and seeing how you go but I’d start with the other things that Kate mentioned and also the magnesium, B’s, vitamin C, zinc, first before I went down the taurine, GABBA route, because you may find that the others are enough. And then, in terms of addressing the actual end-result to a symptoms of hot flashes. On top of what Kate said I’d, and on top of the other supplements I just mentioned, other things that can help are ashwagandha or withania, black cohosh, sage, and maritime pine bark. But I would probably speak to a practitioner to get the right balance of all of those few because there can be some contraindications with medications or other types of things that are going on in your body. But just be aware that those are some kind of options for you. So hopefully that gives you plenty of ideas to run with. The next question was ideas for eating more organ meats in pregnancy, and can I eat pate? And can I just say, does everyone remember that line from Shrek where dog is like, everybody love pate. Remember?

Kate Callaghan
No.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, I love Donkey so much, anyway. I’m really like showing my personality on this podcast today, anyway.

Kate Callaghan
We love your personality.

Natalie K. Douglas
Everyone can go and watch Shrek and or just Google, just YouTube it, maybe I’ll put it in the show notes, everybody love pate. Anyway, Kate, can how do we eat more organ meat, and can we eat pate in pregnancy? And maybe if we can, how often can we eat it?

Kate Callaghan 20:13
So, I’m not sure if, I’m sure you probably would remember maybe it was a couple of years ago now there was more than a couple years ago, maybe four years ago, there was a big drama of babies are going to die if they eat liver or if mom eats liver. Because, you know, the news likes to dramatize things. And the reason why they’re saying that was because people were promoting a formula made from liver. And they were concerned about the vitamin A levels in them. Which on one hand is a legitimate concern because it can be toxic but on the other hand, we kind of need it. So backtracking, so what is so organ meats, backtrack, backtrack. I like to waffle a bit. Sorry.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:00
So now you’re in the right place. We’re good friends.

Kate Callaghan 21:03
Okay, so organ meats. Yes, you can eat them during pregnancy. And my favorite organ meats would be liver. I mean, obviously, there’s other organ meats like brain, heart, kidneys, thymus, forgetting, there’s others. There’s others you can eat, and pretty much anything. But the liver is the big one that I often recommend. And it’s kind of my favorite superfood of all foods. And I often say people they say do we need to take a multivitamin every day? And I will say if you’re eating liver regularly, then no. But if you’re not, then yes, because it is such a nutrient-dense food that we often forget about and don’t add into our diet. So just 50 grams of the liver which is about half your palm size will give you 50% of all of your vitamin and mineral requirements for the day. So your RDA’s. So the minimums that you need, just 50 grams, like half your hand that’s teeny tiny.

Natalie K. Douglas 22:01
And I’m pretty sure there’s like a video out there of you, somewhere doing a liver shot or something. I feel like I saw that?

Kate Callaghan
Don’t say. Don’t’ say.

Natalie K. Douglas
We’re gonna find it everybody and you guys are gonna go watch it.

Kate Callaghan 22:18
Yeah, it was a liver and raspberries, liver, with liver shot. It was. Yeah, I felt amazing after it but um, it was quite metallic.

Natalie K. Douglas
Delicious, really selling it to us?

Kate Callaghan
Well, it’s obviously, it’s really, really high in iron. And that’s another thing with pregnancy because your blood volumes increasing so much, your iron will tend to be quite depleted. And it’s really very important for healthy birth outcomes for mom and bub to have adequate iron levels because it can be quite detrimental for both if you have iron deficiency going into labor because obviously during the labor, you’re going to lose a lot of blood. So, always do check your iron levels. And I find that during pregnancy supplementation is a bit meh, it doesn’t really increase your levels of iron that well and can often lead to the side effects of like nausea and constipation. There are obviously some fabulous iron supplements. But a lot of them I don’t find them to be effective in bumping up those iron levels to where they need to be. So can we eat liver in pregnancy and should we? Yes, we can and we should but we need to be aware of those vitamin A levels. So the vitamin A is that fat-soluble vitamin. Okay, so we get vitamin A from liver. We get it in some dairy, some oily fish, egg yolks, fish liver oils, it’s not in your orange vegetables, in your orange vegetables are carotenoids which can be converted to vitamin A, but the rate in which they converted is about 20 to 50% depending on the individual’s feminized status. Okay?

Natalie K. Douglas 24:02
Yeah, interesting on that is like, so I previously did a lot of analyzing of people’s genes, and there are so many people with compromised, like snips basically that compromised conversion from beta carotene to vitamin A, or to retinol. And yeah, I definitely concur,

Kate Callaghan 24:24
And and while some too much vitamin A can be toxic, okay, it can be really detrimental. So we’ve got to be mindful, nothing too much. But we also need to remember that we need vitamin A. And so I’ve got a little list of a few things that we need Vitamin A form. So it’s important for normal development and differentiation of tissues, kind of important for babies. Has an important role in reproduction, embryonic development, and growth, the center for the manufacturer of rhodopsin in the retina, so important for eyes and vision. It’s important for healthy thyroid function, brain development, bone development, immune function. It’s an antioxidant and it’s important for detoxification, as well. Right?

Natalie K. Douglas
Right.

Kate Callaghan
So, it’s kind of important, all right?

Natalie K. Douglas
A little bit.

Kate Callaghan
So how much do we have? A small amount often is fine. Okay, so I have a post, I’m going to link to it as well because we don’t want to have too much, but the research around vitamin A toxicity is more on really, really excessive amounts, or people eating polar bear liver but I don’t think any of us are going to eat polar bear liver.

Natalie K. Douglas 25:33
How would you even get that?

Kate Callaghan 25:36
I don’t know, I don’t know.

Natalie K. Douglas
Just thinking.

Kate Callaghan
I don’t know. So, if you’re having a small amount of chicken liver pate, every couple of days, I think it’ll be totally fine. So if you had like a piece of really high-quality, toast, gluten-free toast with some pate on it, that would be fabulous but you need to make it fresh, really, really fresh. So if you’re making your own pate, I wouldn’t recommend buying store-bought pate, because that’s a listeria risk during pregnancy but make your own fresh pate from organic livers, spread it out into small containers like a daily dose container, so just like one to two serves in a little container and freeze the rest, and only pull out what you need to use in a day, so you’re eating it super fresh for that day.

Natalie K. Douglas 26:29
I love it. Good advice. I don’t really feel like I need to add anything to that. So let’s move on to the next question, which was just around healing HA and exercise. Go, do you, what do you recommend?

Kate Callaghan 26:45
I only really wanted to, I can talk about this for ages. So I just want to quickly touch on this because I have started to talk about my exercise more on my social media. I have had a few women who are still in the healing process of hypothalamic amenorrhea and saying, awesome, can I do this while I’m healing? My answer is no. Sorry. So, I have started incorporating more high-intensity interval training because I have regular cycles now. So this, so what are we now 2019, I started my healing process in 2013 and had regular cycles where I conceived Olivia 2014. So it’s taken quite a long time between then and now to start reintroducing high-intensity interval training again. And I’ve only done so once my cycles have been regular, so I can track them. So what I would say to those of you wondering if slash when you can introduce more intense exercise, once you have your period back, once it’s consistent, once you’re ovulating as well, and you can track it so you can know okay, my cycles are 30 days long. I usually ovulate on this time, I usually bleed for this many days and this is what looks like. So when you start to introduce more intense exercise, you can actually use that as a bit of a monthly report card as Laura O’brien calls it. So you can look back and go okay, maybe I push things a little bit too hard this month because it’s caused my cycles to go a bit longer, or this didn’t affect my cycle so awesome, I’ll keep this level of exercise for a few months. See how I go and then increase, and again, reassess. Does it make sense?

Natalie K. Douglas 28:27
It does. Yeah. And you know, I was the same, like, when I was healing from HA, I just did everything gradually. I think like, it’s important to, like, once you get to a stage where you, you know, have got your period back, for example, like say you’ve like, this happens to a lot of my clients. So we’re working, working, they’re getting their period back, we finally get their period back. And the first question is, okay, so I can I start increasing my exercise? And I totally get it because I was exactly the same but the trick to it is like slow and steady wins the race, you can’t lose, your body is so hypersensitive to you know, stress, and exercise is a stress. And so the way that you get back to your, you know, routine of exercise, like particularly for high-intensity exercises, what you love to do, you can get that back there, but you can’t go from okay, I’ve got my period once too sweet, I’m going to go enroll enrolling in F45, or CrossFit or, you know, going go to the gym four days a week and do high-intensity exercise, like start with like, like, I would not start with, like, high intensity, like, like interval training, I would start with maybe lifting some if you’re assuming you’re already walking and doing yoga, and like generally moving your body, I would start with lifting some weights.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
Maybe like once or twice a week, and then see how it goes. And then if that was all good, as Kate said, then you know, see where to go from there but just try not to, I don’t like, again so I’m just gonna say like, try not to ruin all your hard work by you know, going too hard too soon because it’s, you know, it takes so much of our energy and our effort and our dedication and our resilience to get our period back. Which you know, for anyone listening who has gone through that journey, you know, what I’m talking about. Other people might be like, what, like, you’re crazy, but it really takes, you know, a lot of emotional energy and, and consistency, and persistence to get it back. And you just, once you’re there, you don’t want to take steps backwards. Like if you just have a little bit, a little bit more patient, which I get is hard but if you just do that, you’ll be in a much better place and you will be able to get back to where you want to get to faster.

Kate Callaghan 30:46
Yeah, I mean, six years, six years, I’ve waited.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:49
Yeah, why did I wait, why did I wait a really long time but I honestly, I did all of the wrong things along the way, actually, and did exactly what I’m telling you not to do, admittedly, but it meant that you know, I kept going back and forth, back and forth and ended up with you know, way more adrenal thyroid, sex hormone imbalance issues, then I needed to if I had just done what I’m telling what we’re telling you guys to do now. So, learn through my mistakes.

Kate Callaghan
Yes.

Natalie K. Douglas
That’s all I can say, okay.

Kate Callaghan
So we jump with the thyroid?

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes, we should.

Kate Callaghan
Alright.

Natalie K. Douglas
Readout the questions.

Kate Callaghan 31:27
Yeah. So, the first question in relation to our thyroid, for you my dear Nat, what can you do if your doctor refuses to test your thyroid properly?

Natalie K. Douglas 31:38
Find a new one is option one and I mean that like you can, but just know that in Australia at the moment, there’s basically a big crackdown and everything on doctors and you know ordering, less than, like what seen is unnecessary tests, which, in terms of the thyroid, anything besides the TSH is unnecessary as a first-line test, so just know that that is why they’re refusing you. And because they can get flagged, if they are seem to be ordering unnecessary tests. So you know, there are doctors out there that are willing to do it but just know that the reason that they’re not is because they are or either they believe that all you need to measure is TSH, or they’re worried about getting kind of, you know, flagged, which is stupid but anyway, that’s just what we’re dealing with, so, you know, I would say try a couple of doctors. I also to be honest, tell people to say that, like express that they really want all of that tested and you know, say that they’ve been out of whack in the past, and you want to see where they’re at now. There are kind of other ways you can help to get yourself tested. If that still doesn’t work, you can do it privately. So you can either, I mean, there’s a few ways so through a naturopath or nutritionist you can get them done. So I can order you know tests for clients in Australia and New Zealand privately in terms of you know, a full thyroid panel in terms of TSH, free T-4, free T-3, and antibodies. You can, there are also a few places online that do direct to consumer blood testing. But obviously, you can order them there. But you really need to know how to interpret them which you know, is is going to be where you want to see your practitioner. So the services that you can use to just order your own ice cream, I’m that they are in Australia, I pretty sure, pretty sure they are now in New Zealand, or they may still be just rolling out there. And then iMedical in Australia as well but as I said like you’re going to need help interpreting them as well. And just to note, when you do go and get your thyroid tested, make sure that you do it fasting first thing in the morning between about 7 and 9 AM. And make sure you don’t take any thyroid medication before your test. So if you’re on thyroid medication, take it to the lab with you, have your thyroid tested then take it, and try. I just tell people to try and generally avoid supplements about 24 hours before the test just to have you know nothing lingering in there as well. So there are a few tips but yeah, you can do it it just a little bit more difficult. Yes, you have to pay out a packet, packet, out of pocket, but it’s worth it in my opinion.

Kate Callaghan
Totally.

Natalie K. Douglas
That’s my answer to that one.

Kate Callaghan 34:38
I concur.

Natalie K. Douglas
Thanks.

Kate Callaghan
All right. Second question. Do thyroid issues impact pregnancy or fertility?

Natalie K. Douglas 34:45
Yes. And yes. So, a few ways. So first of all, the presence of antibodies or a TSH above about 2.2 to 2.5 doubles the chance of, of doubles the risk of having a miscarriage. The second way.

Kate Callaghan
Quite significant.

Natalie K. Douglas
It is so and what happens is the presence of antibodies doubles it and then the TSH elevated, doubles to begin. So, yeah, I don’t say that to scare people that I completely recognize that it does. And it’s not to say that every single person that I mean, I have so many patients that you know have at the presence of antibodies and still have had successful pregnancies, it’s just important to be aware that there is an increased risk. And if there is you want to know about it, because there are things that you can do to try and help mitigate that as well. So it’s it’s just, knowledge is power and try not to let it scare you, try to just let it inform you. Now the second thing to point out is that not enough thyroid hormone affects the body’s ability to produce enough progesterone, which is needed to ovulate and therefore fall pregnant. And there’s also, if you have an underactive thyroid, it can elevate prolactin, which suppresses ovulation, which you also need if you want to make a baby. And then the final kind of relationship that I’d point out is that there is a very strong relationship between the adrenals and thyroid. So if you are under a lot of stress, your body’s not going to want to reproduce. So in that way, it can also impact it. So lots of different ways that thyroid issues can absolutely impact pregnancy or fertility. And I encourage every single person that wants to conceive to make sure they undergo seek, you know, proper thyroid testing at least six months before they try and conceive because you also really want to check your iodine levels because we want them at a minimum of 150 before you fall pregnant because they’re a lot harder to get up quickly during pregnancy than they are, you know, if you’re going, you better off optimizing them before you get into that into that stage because a lot of that really key big development happens early on in pregnancy and they need, you need iodine for that and your baby needs iodine for that. And it’s just really important to get that checked off. So yes, big relationship there.

Kate Callaghan 37:15
Yeah. 100%. And yeah, as you said Nat, getting tested before. And then I would only add if you do have an established thyroid condition, really make sure you’re getting your thyroids tested every six weeks during pregnancy as well.

Natalie K. Douglas 37:28
Yeah, definitely. And I also encourage people if they have thyroid issues, like existing thyroid issues too, and they’re trying to conceive to monitor their basal body temperature. And Kate, you have a fantastic article on this on your website as well about monitoring your basal body temp and just being able to predict earlier when you do fall pregnant compared to a pregnancy test can be really helpful when as soon as you recognize you are pregnant. If you’ve got existing thyroid issues, I encourage people to go and get their thyroid tested just to see you know where your TSH is at and where the medication needs to be added in or adjusted for the safety of your baby and you throughout pregnancy. So yeah, if you just Google the holistic nutritionist, basal body temperature tracking, your article, like Kate’s article will come up so just do that.

Kate Callaghan 38:21
Awesome.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Question three, what foods need to be eliminated in Hashimoto’s thyroiditis?

Natalie K. Douglas 38:36
Okay, so, well, you should just do my 12-week Thyroid Rescue Program. Shameless plug, it’s actually launching again in June but anyway, I’m just kidding. But not really, because you should do it. And it’s awesome. But yeah, elimination reintroduction diet is often the way I go because I find it is really, really helpful. So the foods that I most often encourage people to eliminate would be gluten for sure, dairy, soy, legumes, grains, sugar, alcohol, coffee, eggs, nightshades, nuts, and seeds. Now, none of that is forever. I know it sounds like well, what the fuck am I supposed to eat? Relax, everybody. There are so many delicious recipes and foods you can eat. And to be honest, like everyone’s degree at which they need to get rid all of those things is going to vary. I encourage people to do it because it helps set a baseline but I would say the main things that people with Hashimoto’s need to or would benefit from staying off, you know, more, you know, medium to long term would be gluten, dairy, and sugar would be the big ones like you can get away with some of the other ones most often here and there but those would be the big ones. However, it is still really beneficial to do an elimination reintroduction type protocol to really bring down inflammation in your body to hit reset, to allow your immune system to calm down a little bit if you’ve developed any food intolerances because there is often food intolerances associated with thyroid issues or Hashimoto’s or autoimmune conditions because there’s often the presence of leaky gut. If so if we can settle all of that down, allow for some healing then you can often reintroduce a lot of these foods and find out which if any, actually affect you and how you’re feeling on an individual basis which is exactly what we do in the thyroid rescue program. So we take everyone through that whole process and don’t leave you with no idea of what to eat. There is a whole you know, meal plan shopping list recipes for the whole 12-weeks but that’s what I would recommend. I mean if you’re like, I don’t want to do your program I just want to start right now in doing something then if you haven’t already eliminated gluten, dairy, and sugar as a start, and industrial seed oils, but I feel like no one should ever eat those anyway unless, you know, except for the some exposure that we get at restaurants and stuff, which is just life but you know, definitely don’t have vegetable oil in your cupboard or anything like that.

Kate Callaghan 41:16
Unless it’s in your garage, can be for like, lubing stuff but not not lubing for rim it. Don’t do that.

Natalie K. Douglas 41:27
Lube is such a funny word.

Kate Callaghan
I mean, lubing doors.

Natalie K. Douglas
I never think of lube as anything other than lubing for sexual purposes. When you just said that I was like, oh, does she has sex in the garage?

Kate Callaghan 41:40
I do not and nor do I use canola oil for lube.

Natalie K. Douglas 41:44
I used coconut oil.

Kate Callaghan
Have you?

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, I feel like that works well. You’re just, keeps them in the bedroom. Works with massage, anyway, this is getting into a whole another podcast.

Kate Callaghan 41:58
This was not what was supposed to talk about, anyway.

Natalie K. Douglas 42:00
Yeah, coconut oil for you know, lube as coconut oil as lube does work. Well, if anyone wanted that tip. So, enjoy it. Next question. Oh, I actually moving on to gut health. Now, do you want to ask the first question, and then I can.

Kate Callaghan 42:16
Sure, and I think with the first two might kind of tame to each other.

Natalie K. Douglas
Okay. Alright. Cool.

Kate Callaghan
But but but I will ask first question. All right. I had, not me personally, but the person who wrote in. I had a stool test done, but nothing came back and I still have heaps of gut symptoms. Any ideas?

Natalie K. Douglas 42:33
Yes. So, I say this a lot. So they’re usually two things. Most commonly, two things are going on. One is that the test you did wasn’t right. So there’s a lot of different types of gut testing out there and it’s an ever-evolving field and even I have recently changed the type of tests that I recommend. All testing, you have to recognize all testing has its limitations. And all of gut testing out there has its benefits, and has its drawbacks there are very few that like do absolutely everything. My preference as of now, as of today’s recording, is using DNA-based stool testing with PCR testing. So that’s not going to mean much to you guys but my encouragement would be make sure that you’re speaking to someone who knows what they’re doing in relation to doing stool testing and gut testing. So also recognize that doing a stool test is assessing your large intestine, it’s not looking at your small intestine for anything that’s in there. So that’s where the second thing can come up. So if you, don’t say for example, you’ve done the best DNA-PCR combination stool tests that’s out there and nothing came back as imbalanced. Nothing came back as imbalance, nothing came back as a parasite, or yeast, or fungal overgrowth, everything was, you know, sweet ass, then the next thing that I often say is that the issue actually isn’t in your large intestine, the issue is in your small intestine, in relation to SIBO, so small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which is a the way you actually get tested for that, which is actually the second question. So I’m just kind of answering two in one here. But the second, the way you get tested for SIBO is through a breath test. So it is not through a stool test, it will not show up in a stool test. The only way you can know it’s there is through a breath test. It’s a pain in the butt to do but it does work well and it can diagnosed with diagnose whether there is SIBO there. Kate, what was the second part to that SIBO question, because I feel like there was more.

Kate Callaghan 44:44
That was I keep hearing people talk about SIBO and I feel like I have all the symptoms, but I am not sure how to get tested or what to do about it.

Natalie K. Douglas 44:55
Okay, yeah, so getting tested. So the doctor won’t test you for it, but you can order it through a practitioner that does gut testing. So, it’s called a SIBO breath test, basically, so you, that’s easy to do. I’m not sure if the SIBO, so the tests that I use is SIBO, is from SIBOtest.com. I’m not sure if they do direct to consumer stuff but even if they did, you’d want to speak to a practitioner about interpreting the results and also giving you a treatment protocol. So, in terms of treatment, I use a combination of dietary modification. So often I use, either it’s called a SIBO diet, or I’ll use a low FODMAP diet, just depending on the person in conjunction with antimicrobials, depending on the person, depending on which type of bacteria is overgrown. So, there’s methane-dominant species, and there’s hydrogen-dominant species. Methane-dominant tend to, you tend to present more as constipation, hydrogen, you tend to present more as diarrhea, but that is not always true. It’s just common. And then they can also be SIFO, which is a small intestinal fungal overgrowth, which you can’t test for, but we would know based on process of elimination, so that’s something again, you’re going to have to talk to a practitioner about because they need to be skilled in, you know, interpreting your symptoms, eliminating, you know, other possibilities through testing, like the breath testing, or the stool testing, and just taking a really good case history. And then similar treatment is different antimicrobials. But again, I’m not going to name all of them, because it really is a little bit different for everyone. And it’s important that you get kind of individualized treatment for that. Um, yeah, that’s my answer for that one.

Kate Callaghan 46:44
Yeah. Good answer. With the, I think you touched on stool test. I often get clients saying that they did a stool test. And when I, I want to fake the probe but that’s, probe’s a little bit deeper. Well, yeah, it’s too early for that. Anyway, when I dig a little bit now I just have very, my head.

Natalie K. Douglas 47:10
That’s all right, go to the garage and collect your thoughts.

Kate Callaghan 47:12
When I ask, when I ask further questions, I discover that they have any, have their stool test done at the doctor and the doctor for often only do a certain amount of tests, they don’t do a comprehensive, what we call a comprehensive stool analysis. So it’s kind of, can be a bit of a nothing. So even though the Comprehensive Stool Analysis plus Parasitology x3, so you don’t miss things, can be a little bit expensive. It’s definitely worth it to avoid kind of going run around in circles and, yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas 47:49
I often tell people. I, like, agree. And then but then slightly, slightly disagree. Like I, I tell people go I mean, the doctor so the doctor uses if you ask for PCR, multiplex, multiplex with PCR testing through the doctor, sometimes things pop up there. So it’s worth doing that, as Kate said, it’s not worth basing everything off. So it is better to get more thorough testing. If you’re doing just to make sure no one’s confused. If you’re doing a DNA-based test, then you don’t need to do a three-day sample. But if you’re doing one that is not based on DNA-based testing, if you use a technique called MALDI-TOF or a different technique then you do need to do a three-day test. So as you can hear, it is a little bit confusing, which is why it’s a really good idea to actually speak with someone because there is plenty of direct to consumer gut tests out there. But if you don’t know what you’re trying to find, or what you’re purchasing, or how to interpret it, it can be a big, fat waste of money. So make sure you speak to some before you invest in that.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah. Well, let’s poop. Let’s poop.

Kate Callaghan 49:08
So there’s a question, thoughts on low-FODMAP diet if people have irritable bowel syndrome?

Natalie K. Douglas 49:15
Yeah, so, I do use the low-FODMAP diet in IBS as a temporary measure to reduce their symptoms. But for me, it’s just a band-aid and I want to know, why do you have IBS, and why can’t you tolerate FODMAP’s. So usually it’s SIBO, sometimes it’s a parasite, sometimes it is Candida. So I would put you on a low-FODMAP diet, try and find the cause, and treat the cause, and then reintroduce FODMAP’s, because FODMAP’s are food for your beneficial bacteria and we should be able to tolerate them in at least in moderate amounts, and they are beneficial. Obviously, they’re not beneficial if you’re feeling like absolute crap, no pun intended but we need to know why because we want to eventually be able to have the broadest diet possible with the least amount of symptoms. So yes, Kate, do you use the low-FODMAP diet, or recommended, or have any differing thoughts to that?

Kate Callaghan 50:18
No, I do. I agree with you but I think it’s it can be a really healing tool and for, I also really love and I think it’s worth a mention the low-FODMAP app for Monash University. So it can be a little bit confusing when you start a low-FODMAP diet in terms of where to look and finding all different information on the interwebs. Obviously, work with a practitioner but I really love the low-FODMAP app by Monash University, because they are up to date with the latest research and they kind of use a bit of a traffic light system with with their recommendations. So you know, green means go, red means stop, orange means proceed with caution.

Natalie K. Douglas
Thanks for that lesson.

Kate Callaghan
Basically, that’s an explanation of the traffic light system.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, yeah, fantastic.

Kate Callaghan
It gives you, it gives you exact consciousness as well. So for example, you might tolerate a quarter cup of sweet potato, but half a cup might be too much, you get into a red zone, so it’s really handy app to use.

Natalie K. Douglas 51:15
Awesome. Yeah, I have it on my phone as well, actually not because I have an issue with FODMAP’s but because I get questions all the time. And I’m not actually a running Encyclopedia of FODMAP foods. I know the most common ones. But sometimes people ask me a question. I’m like, I don’t remember if that is orange or red. Anyway, no one needs to know that. All these conversations usually happen in my head. It’s, my husband’s been away for two weeks, I’ve had no one to bond with. So, I just.

Kate Callaghan 51:41
So, we’re getting it.

Natalie K. Douglas 51:44
Yes, so everybody, he’ll be back soon. So it’s all right.

Kate Callaghan 51:47
Now, I feel we can probably answer the next one kind of quickly.

Natalie K. Douglas 51:51
All right, what is it?

Kate Callaghan
Yeah?

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes.

Kate Callaghan 51:52
Okay, so we got a question on our thoughts on the use of microwaves to heat our food. I know hot food is better to eat. How do you heat your leftovers?

Natalie K. Douglas 52:03
Yeah. Do you heat? Okay, so, Kate, we may or may not differ on this but we haven’t actually discussed it before. So I, I, like, I find this an interesting question. And I think that the my approach to it is quite non not very exciting. So, I think that in terms of the concerns around it, there’s two main concerns that come up. And one is that you’re at risk for cancer, or increased risk of cancer when you’re exposed to these microwaves or radiate like the radiation from microwaves. But when you actually look into the research on this, it actually seems that it’s not quite as cut and dry as a lot of us think. And most evidence seems to suggest that the risk is increased if you’re actually exposed to the ways which, if the microwave microwave is built according to standards, that shouldn’t happen, unless you’re standing super close to it. So I’d say if or when you heat the food, maybe don’t stand right in front of it. I know it makes you feel like your food will be done faster because you’re watching it but I’ve tested that theory and can confirm that that is incorrect. So just step away from your microwave when you’re using it to avoid that concern. The second thing that’s often a concern is that it destroys the proteins and nutrients in your food. Now, I think that the language around this is kind of misleading, because yes, it does change the structure of the proteins to an extent it basically denature’s them, which is when the protein unfolds anyway, like, we weren’t going to the science of that for now but this happened in all types of heating, plus your body also does it itself using stomach acid. So in terms of so that’s a kind of the protein thing. So no, it doesn’t and, well, it does, but it’s not a concern. The second part is in the, in terms of the nutrients and again, the scientists mix. So that means in some cases, micro microwaving food decreases the vitamin and mineral content, in others increases that compared to other heating methods. And actually water-soluble vitamins like B vitamins and vitamin C are lost more when boiled compared to microwave because they are water-soluble and they leach into your water. And unless you’re sipping on your source and water, you probably aren’t getting as many nutrients not to say that you can’t ever boil anything, I’m just putting into context, everything, putting everything into context. So in saying all of that, I feel like, you know, there’s still probably a lot we don’t know, and when possible. And if you’ve got the time, I do think eating your food in an oven or on a stovetop is a more natural option, I suppose. But I also don’t think people should be fearful of ever using the microwave. You know, if it’s the difference between eating a nutrient-dense meal that you’ve cooked yourself in a reheating versus going and buying takeaway from down the street. Those are my thoughts, Kate, but I, I’d love to hear yours even if they differ. And also, can you touch on maybe you know, what we should avoid heating our food in if we are going to heat it?

Kate Callaghan 55:22
Well, that was more extensive than I thought it was going to be. We can answer this quickly. No, we can’t. My thoughts I, I’m of the opinion that we don’t know enough about what it could potentially do. So I do minimize my use of microwaves, I don’t own a microwave. You know, I think it also takes up too much space as well. It’s kind of ugly. That’s my point of view, we also if so if you are using a microwave or any heating really, might have said a microwave but you’re probably not gonna put this in the oven. Don’t. I hope you don’t put plastic in the oven. Don’t heat your food in plastic. Ideally, you shouldn’t be storing hot or fatty foods in plastic either. Dry, cold foods are okay but really minimizing that use of plastic in the house. They’re definitely not heating, I mean plastic, use glass or ceramic, and probably not like stainless steel that’s the thing that kind of explodes things. I haven’t used a microwave for a long time.

Natalie K. Douglas 56:28
I’m really retarded when it comes to things like you can and can’t put in electronic devices. Oh, I’ve been to stuff like I’m so bad like, I mean, I’m fine to use like baking paper because I’m like well it says baking so shortly it’s fine. But then all of the other papers I’m like, is this gonna explode or create a fire and my husband’s a firefighter so I’m like, oh, well it doesn’t work.

Kate Callaghan 56:54
It could explode. But that’s okay, I’m safe. So I think I you know, I do get a bit of fomo when I see all these recipes from mug cakes, which like cook it for one minute in the microwave and I’m like, but how do you do it without a microwave? I want the mug cake.

Natalie K. Douglas 57:13
Yeah, oh my God. I was gonna say the dumbest thing I’ve said all day. I was gonna have to say maybe there’s an oven cake.

Kate Callaghan 57:20
You should not have repeated that. Definitely, somehow extract that.

Natalie K. Douglas
You should edit that out.

Kate Callaghan
All right, so how do I heat my leftovers on the stove in a pot, or eat them cold? I’m really not precious.

Natalie K. Douglas 57:40
Yeah, when I’m lazy, I’m just whatever I’ll have it cold.

Kate Callaghan
Actually, I should I should sorry she did say I know hot food is better to eat. I should put some context around this, the person who asked is going through the healing process of hypothalamic amenorrhea, where I do really heat foods.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes. Good point. Good point. Yeah, stovetop oven. I often find like chucking stuff in the oven and then like going and doing something for like not forgetting your atmosphere.

Kate Callaghan 58:12
That’s fine.

Natalie K. Douglas 58:15
When cooking, everybody except like you can like interval look, in my opinion. So I’ll go like have a shower and then come back to and it’ll be heated because otherwise I just stand there. Um, why isn’t that heated yet after like one minute of the oven pre-heating with my food in there because I’m a little bit impatient. So just some tips, go and do something else. Well, go listen to our podcast. Yeah, listen to our podcast while you’re waiting for your food to heat up. Okay, well, we’ve talked for quite a long time. So I feel like we should wrap it up. Is there anything you wanted to add before we close off Kate?

Kate Callaghan 58:52
If there is anyone in Queenstown, I am running a workshop there this Friday. I don’t know if it’s they’re going to hear it before then. But this Friday night and Saturday morning, my last Holistic Health workshops for a while so if you live in Queenstown, or around and would like to come to one of those, there’s only eight spaces available to each workshop. So get in quick, shoot me a message. And also if anyone’s thinking about getting started with essential oils, there’s 20% off most of the starter kits but only for me so you only have a few days left with that.

Natalie K. Douglas 59:24
Exciting. Okay, cool. Well, I will actually make sure this is uploaded so people can hear that.

Kate Callaghan 59:30
We really fit on the first of June. Sorry.

Natalie K. Douglas 59:37
No, but I’m going to upload it but I think I’m not going to edit out anything I’ve said because I’ve just got to be speedy. Okay, cool. And if you guys as always have questions, please keep writing them in because we love doing Q and A’s. They’re fun so much.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, they are.

Natalie K. Douglas
Okay, cool. Well, Kate, have a lovely day and I will speak to you soon.

Kate Callaghan 59:55
You too, Nat.

Natalie K. Douglas
Bye.

Kate Callaghan
Bye.

Outro 59:59
Thanks for tuning in to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. Remember, we love to make the show relevant to you. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to discuss, just submit them to [email protected] and we’ll get them answered for you. Also, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on iTunes and share it with your friend. And if you’re looking for more info about how we can accelerate your journey to your optimal health, you can find me, Nat, over at NatalieKDouglas.com, and Kate at TheHolisticNutritionist.com. See you next time!