#58 Breaking Habits & Addictions - with Blake Worrall-Thompson

The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast


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"Procrastination will often come with perfectionism. And people can identify with that perfectionism, or on a deeper layer they can be scared of not doing the work perfectly. So, when it's not done 100% perfectly, there's fear of judgment from others and judgment of self. So when you're working out how to overcome addictions and start breaking bad habits, if you pull apart the layers you often your behaviours are just surface level on most occasions."

Blake Worrall-Thompson | Lifestyle & Performance Coach Tweet This!

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In Episode 58 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas, Kate Callaghan, and their guest, Blake Worrall-Thompson (Lifestyle & Performance Coach) discuss how to overcome addictions and how you can start breaking bad habits like procrastination and perfectionism.

  • What the fitness industry is missing when it comes to changing lives
  • What so many people are doing wrong when it comes to personal development
  • The power of integrating and embodying what you already know
  • Why willpower doesn’t work and what to do instead
  • Exploring overcoming addictions 
  • Blake’s favourite tools for behaviour change and getting “unstuck”
  • Curiosity versus reactivity when it comes to triggers 
  • Lengthening the gap between stimulus and response aka the “freedom gap”
  • The power of mindset in healing your physical body
  • The magic of holding space 

Blake Worrall-Thompson
Lifestyle & Performance Coach

Intro 0:00
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, with your hosts Natalie K. Douglas, Thyroid Healer, and Kate Callaghan, The Holistic Nutritionist. Nat and Kate are degree-qualified dietitians and nutritionists, certified fitness instructors, speakers, and authors. If you love unfiltered banter, unedited bloopers, and authentic heart-sharing, then we are your ladies! Now it’s time to sit back, relax, and get ready for our latest tips on living your healthiest life possible.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:33
Oh, hey guys. Welcome back to the podcast. Our lovely co-host Kate is MIA today. However, we are lucky enough to be joined by Performance and Lifestyle Coach, Blake Worrall-Thompson, who is one of the most sought after coaches in the country. He’s owned and operated a number of fitness training businesses with his most successful creation being the 6W2S programs, 6 Weeks to Sexy, and 6 Weeks to shredded. However, after years in the fitness industry, Blake has shifted gears slightly and is now known more for his ability to transform lives through his incredible mindset coaching. Blake is dedicated to helping people break through barriers that are holding them back from having it all. Sounds pretty bloody good to me, Blake. Welcome to the show and thanks so much for joining us. So, the first question we ask all of our guests is, what did you have for breakfast this morning?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 1:30
This morning, Nat, was a smoothie, which is a pretty common thing for me in morning and definitely about to train first thing. I’m not ready for proper breakfast after that. So, it was a smoothie this morning.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:44
Yum. I love a good smoothie, especially in summer. Oh, actually, I like them all year round. Feels like the right thing to say in summer. Awesome. Alright, so my first question to you, I guess is, what you will, I kind of mentioned in your bio that you have shifted gears a little bit from the fitness coaching to more of the mindset coaching, what actually motivated you to make that switch?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 2:09
Well, a couple of things. I think, naturally, the progression after, you know, almost 15 years in the industry had me, you know, wanting to keep evolving and keep growing and that was a natural evolution. I guess it may into that space. And I think also is, you know, having spent so much time around both nutrition and exercise as a platform to change people. I noticed that I wasn’t quite getting the changes in other people that I wanted. And I definitely was struggling in a number of areas of my life and couldn’t really join the dots on as to why. So, I started kind of digging deep a little bit, probably four years ago in this space. I think, you know, as you know, mindset is always a natural byproduct of health and fitness. But in terms of really understanding why we are the way we are and why we do what we do, I really started diving into that about four years ago and started making more sense of why people would struggle with their goals while they’re off the bandwagon. You know, things like addictions, I really wanted to understand that. And, you know, through my own kind of implementation into my world, things started to shift up. And you know, don’t get me wrong, there’s still some things, some unanswered questions that I’m working through, which is exciting. And naturally, you know, me seeing these transformations kind of helped me start to move into that coaching and help people on that on a bigger level and on a deeper level.

Natalie K. Douglas 3:44
Yeah, it’s so interesting, hey, because, you know, we can talk about what’s optimal to do in terms of nutrition or diet or you know, any kind of, you know, thing like that, that’s good for you. But it’s really, there’s enough information out there for most people to find out what they need to do. But it’s the actual implementation of what they need to do that often gets people stuck. And, you know, I completely can resonate with that. I’ve had many health struggles in my life. And I would say majority of them haven’t been for a lack of knowing what I needed to do to heal, it was more overcoming those barriers that was stopping me from healing. And I definitely know I’m not alone because I would say that most of my clients, and most of Kate’s clients, from speaking to her definitely struggle with that. So it’s, it’s really interesting, and something that shouldn’t be ignored in relation to actually becoming your healthiest self. And I guess the area of like, personal development, it’s now I feel, it could just be because I live in a little bubble. But like, it’s now becoming more and more talked about more and more on people’s radar. And it is, I would say a pretty big industry in itself in a lot of ways. But everyone takes a little bit of a different approach. So I guess what I mean by that is, I feel like in my experience delving into personal development, there’s kind of that really, like, you know, mind over matter, you’ve just got to toughen up and get through it. And then, you know, there’s the complete opposite as well. And then there’s this space where we can get into, I would say, like, over personal development, or like it take it too seriously, as well. But what’s your experience with that or what’s your approach with personal development?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 5:30
I resonate with absolutely everything you just said because I, you know, have been the person about, you know, amongst my circles, a personal development person since I started with personal training 15 years ago. And, you know, probably only more in more recent times did I notice the addiction to it. And, you know, that kind of personal development junk almost where I was looking for my next exciting shiny course, or coach, or book to read. And it was just jumping from one to one, you know, one to the next in terms of courses or whatever else. And while there’s, you know, in brackets, more challenging addictions than personal development, exercise, nutrition, and you would have experienced addictions on that side of things. I, personally, am big believer that no addiction is ideal. So, I looked at it, and I was like, oh, you know, despite spending a stupid amount of money on courses, I’m not really getting the traction that I want, like, I’m still kind of, you know, running on the spot a bit, and what was essentially happening. And, you know, the shame took me so long to realize, but what was essentially happening was, I was just jumping from one to the next, and there was no kind of integration or embodiment of what I was learning in between. And it’s not to say that I’m not prepared to do the work. I’ve always considered myself kind of highly motivated and willing to put in. It was just that it wasn’t like, I was just so fixated on the next thing, as opposed to growing, here are my learnings, here is how that changed my life. It is a period of time where I’m not going to jump on to the next thing. I’m just going to sit and be with them. And I’m going to learn and integrate, and I’m gonna make sure they’re kind of part of my you know, daily thinking, daily rituals, and then I’m going to potentially think about what’s next. And like you said, one of the big things for me, you know, as part of my coaching, in NLP terms, you know, which is one of the kind of forms of coaching I use, there’s two things that are essentially blocking us from having more success. And obviously, you know, there’s thousands of things, but they kind of come into two categories. One is resources, and two is interferences. And resources is essentially like, what do you need to learn in order to have more success or who do you need to work alongside? Like, if you’re trying to, you know, create a six figure business and you’ve got no idea how to do it? And yeah, you’re probably going to need to go and find a coach, it’s had a lot of success with that in your world. And obviously, you know, need people like you and all the good naturopaths, nutritionist, those that are helping them in that space, dietitians, whatever it may be. There’s a lot of these people know better. So in terms of resources, they’re okay, it’s the interferences sets the pattern, the programming, the beliefs, the sabotage, the unhealthy habits, you know. Those things that they need to be able to firstly identify. And then secondly, have the toolkit to break through that and move forward so that they can really capitalize on the resources and the knowledge that you’ve got those to really transform going forward.

Natalie K. Douglas 8:51
Yeah, totally. And it’s, it’s interesting, you say that, because I often find that most people that I see stop progressing forward is because like, a lot of self-sabotage seems to come into play. And then it’s kind of like, I mean, if any nutritionist or naturopaths are listening now understand this, like a lot of people if they self-sabotage, because they haven’t followed what you’ve said, they won’t come back to see you. But I often find like, one of the most helpful things in consulting with people is, like you said, actually providing them with tools, like with, you know, of course, bringing awareness to their behaviors. But then, okay, like, when this comes up, when this trigger comes up, for example, like, if it’s an emotional eating kind of thing, like I’m triggered by an emotion and my first reaction is to go to food, you know, where can we like, where can we kind of bring in some kind of resource to interfere with that pattern that you’ve developed? And I think that it’s such an important thing, because when people just then kind of give up on the journey and label themselves as oh, I don’t have willpower, when you be like, you know, if you’re relying on willpower, you’re not really going about it the right way in my opinion. Like, not the right way, like it’s, it’s not the most efficient way, because you know, we only have so much willpower and it’s the habits that are going to create the change not that not the willpower. What’s your experience with that kind of, you know, relying on willpower alone to make a change?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 10:36
Well, the thing we’d set and this is, you know, something that I love working with clients on is willpower, procrastination, motivation, those tend to actually be surface-level blocks. So, if you look at procrastination, procrastination will often come in with perfectionism. And people can identify with that perfectionism or been on a deeper layer be, you know, scared of not doing the work hundred percent, you know, perfectly. And when it’s not done, you know, hundred percent perfectly, there’s fear of judgment from others and judgment of self. So, you know, willpower, those type of things is if you actually pull apart the layers. They’re just the surface level on most occasions. So that for me is really interesting because that’s where people get stuck and that’s why people, you know, tend to try to force their way through things, instead of working towards a state of flow. Because when you identify the root cause, and you know, guarantee that willpower, procrastination, motivation aren’t the root cause, but when you guarantee you can find the root cause and you clear that, then you start to break the loop. So for example, in your space, and I know you mentioned kind of fat loss isn’t the biggest part of yours. I think we kind of use fat loss as an example. You know, I’ve heard the statistics for a few years now, but it was something like the average person in that weight loss space is really trying to lose weight will try three, you know, fancy something like that. The problem is, is they’re forcing. So they’re like, head down, bam up, let’s force our way through this patent in patenting program, follow the, you know, the fear that we’ve got, unconsciously fall off the bandwagon, you know, despite having lost 3, 5, 10 kilos. Come back to the start, and then go, oh damn fell off, and then go again, force, force, force, you know, and then whatever the block is, you know, it could be fear of judgment. So when they go out, and they’re with friends, and you know, and they’re meant to have a salmon salad, but everyone else is having the, you know, schnitzel and chips is like, you know, they don’t want to be the center of attention, they don’t want to draw the attention to them when they order the salmon salad. For that reason, they kind of fall into the pattern of going, okay, just to kind of fill in with the crowd and not have extra attention, I’m going to do what they’re doing. So there’s a whole bunch of habits. But, you know, the fact is, as you said earlier, increasing that awareness of what you’re doing in terms of falling off the bandwagon is really one of the first steps and for me, it’s, you know, when I’m working with someone, it’s awareness, ownership, and understanding. And awareness is acknowledging self in terms of heightened that awareness. And I really kind of resonate with this, because I was unconsciously just trying to force my way to success, you know, and success kind of whatever that looks like to the individual. Ownership is owning everything full stop, like, you want to get to the point where you really taking ownership and understanding is essentially, like, you know, how does this, how do we as humans kind of work on a surface, you know, not on a surface level, but as a collective group. And when you have a better understanding of how we work, how the brain works, and then you know, start taking ownership and awareness, then you really start to transform pretty quickly. And the other thing, you know, that you mentioned, as well is, whenever I start speaking to someone, I really want to reframe how they respond to their own downfalls. So, what you’ll find often and you kind of alluded to it earlier is, you know, this kind of lack of compassion to self, it’s like oh shit and fell off the bandwagon. I’m not good at this, you know, and that kind of really negative headspace. The way that I prefer them to look at it is with interesting curiosity. And what it does is it just changes it from judgment to interesting curiosity. There’s no point at me, you know, when they come to me, telling I’ve been a bad because I had off eyes meant to have salad, like, we’re not going to get anything from that other than increasing the level of shame and guilt, and they’re probably already feeling and experiencing. And to be honest, they’re probably not really going to want to be fully transparent with me. So when they come to me, it’s like, okay, cool. You fell off the bandwagon, we acknowledge that, and by no means are we kind of letting you off the hook? In fact, we’re doing the complete opposite, we’re going to deep dive into that and get to the root cause of it, work out why you did what you did, and then we can kind of breakthrough there. So, it’s actually holding more accountable by not telling them off, but going, right, this is our focus, we are going to work through it.

Natalie K. Douglas 15:41
Yeah, and it’s, it’s like, I totally agree with everything you’ve said, and I absolutely think will be beneficial, because, you know, you can really apply that to any, any goal but fat loss is a really easy example that a lot of people can resonate with because it’s, you know, it’s a lot of people have that goal. And it is really interesting because I think that, you know, it’s. I’ve found in my experience with working with people with fat loss goals or who have histories of binge eating, or emotional eating, or those kind of things. It’s you’re kind of right, it’s there’s always a deeper reason why. And I think also were so worried as well about what other people think like, when I really kind of went oh yeah, like, I get that when you were talking about to going out to eat and, you know, whatever goal you’re trying to eat for, like for kind of the people me and Kate treat, it could be you know, that they’re eliminating a couple of foods because they’re trying to heal their gut or something. And you go out to eat, and you’re the one that’s doing something different. And, you know, people react because in like in my experience, I mean I’ve done a lot of. I had to do a lot of kind of gut healing and relatively restrictive protocols to get myself. Well again, and I found every time I made a choice that was, you know, different to everyone else or healthier and that kind of thing. People automatically get defensive, and you haven’t even done anything, you haven’t even said anything, all you’ve done is make a different choice because it triggers them. And you really have to realize that, you know, actually, you know, I could I see what’s happening, but this has nothing to do with me and kind of step back from that because it’s easy to get caught up in their defensiveness and then feel triggered and like the uptight one yourself and kind of create that story around it. And I really think with the, you know, with the awareness side of things, when you for example, fall off the bandwagon of whatever you know, whatever course you’re taking to try and reach your goal. I, I think curiosity is such a good way as such a good term to use in relation to that because the more you can understand your behaviors, the more free you feel. Like that’s been my experience, like there’s been times where I’ve been caught in patterns. And it’s frustrating, and you almost get overwhelmed by the frustration and then sink into that, as you’re saying like that guilt, that shame, fear, all these kind of things. Whereas if you try and switch your mindset to okay, like, what were the steps or the thoughts leading to that decision, and kind of exploring that and more, and I often encourage people, particularly my weight loss clients when they do kind of fall off the bandwagon in quite a big way, and then just continue that cascade. I’m like, you know what? What we’re both like, the practical things that could have helped you to make a different decision but then also what, what were the underlying thoughts that led you to make that decision? And then how did you, how did you feel about that? Because I think that yeah, the more you just understand yourself, the more you can make progress, because how can you change something you don’t understand? I think it’s really difficult.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 19:14
Absolutely. And one of the things, I mean there’s so many ways to, you know, go about that one of the things, you know, that frustrates me about is performance coaches is they’ll tell you, you know, just work through your SMART Goals. And while in theory, it sounds good, we aren’t really robots, there’s this thing called emotions that we have, and they control a lot about this.

Natalie K. Douglas
Just a little barrier.

Blake Worrall-Thompson
Yeah, it’s just a little barrier into these SMART Goals. And while SMART Goals would work really well, if we were at right body, and didn’t have these things, emotions that kind of control us. That’s the realities that like, our energetic body and our emotional body are making a lot of decisions for us. And that’s where SMART Goals kind of fall down. So, one of the challenging things for a lot of people, especially in the initial stages, when I’m working with them, is to acknowledge the emotion or the feeling and not act on it. And that’s where we have, you know, this thing called stimulus, which is essentially a lot of the time a certain feeling that comes up and response the way that we act. So, for example, you know, social anxiety, that said, less than desirable feeling for a lot of people. And the response is to distract or suppress that, so food, alcohol, whenever you may do. So, it’s a really challenging thing in the initial stages to go, okay. Not that I am anxious, because then you let it kind of take over you, but I’m experiencing a sense of anxiety. Just separating yourself a little bit and being the observer on your feelings. Initially, it’s going to be real uncomfortable but when you learn that, there’s a little bit of self-mastery observing the feelings and not having to unconsciously act on them, you start to take back your power.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:13
I love that. I love that so much. And I think, you know, I try and encourage people to like lengthen that gap between stimulus and response because it’s like, you know, in that is where the freedom is. Like it is where you can choose your response, in a sense. And I actually really love what you said about that, in terms of not identifying with, you know, I am anxious or I have, you know, I have anxiety disorder, or whatever it is, because for me, like a huge part of healing, in my opinion, and experience is actually believing that you can recover and believing that your body is capable of healing, and also that you deserve it. But I see a lot of people ignore that side of things, and they start to identify with what’s going on. So for example, like, I treat a lot of people with Hashimoto’s, which is an autoimmune thyroid condition. And so, people kind of block themselves from actually experiencing healing, because they’re constantly searching for why they’re not better, as opposed to kind of focusing on, I guess, what they actually want to feel. And it’s a really big trap that gets like that people get in. And I don’t know if you have any tips around that, like whether something like visualization can help or what would you kind of recommend for someone who, you know, maybe is experiencing some kind of challenge with their health and they need to get to, like they’re on a healing journey, but they keep focusing on identifying with what their, you know, diagnosis has been or what their issue is, and kind of blocking themselves to getting to that next kind of level.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 23:10
So, a couple of things on that is, and there’s you know, go real deep on this, but unfortunately, for a lot of people, they are fixated on their identity as it stands now. And without their identity, they’re not really sure, you know, I won’t go into kind of deep science on it, but without their identity, they’re not really sure who they are. And it also gives them, sometimes it gives him community and a bit of purpose. So, you know, if you look at epigenetics and our ability to kind of turn on and off cells, when we resonate with something eg. I’m a cancer survivor, I’m a, you know, a recover, you know, working my way out of relationship, domestics, whatever we kind of want to recognize is one will often find a community that helps support us and make us feel loved, safe, you know, part of something, but two is, the language that you use is so important because the language you use is essentially affecting your brain, your behaviors, and yourselves. So, while you keep talking about, you know, being a cancer survivor, and using the word cancer, it’s actually having a negative impact on yourself and stopping you from, you know, really moving forward. So if you, you know, are interested in looking at epigenetics and how it affects you, and the environment. You put yourself in, it’s definitely worth starting out. The other thing with that is, unfortunately, as you know, the way that we set up is, we are more fixated on things that are pretty familiar than we are on the unknown. So, you know, we would happily and I use that word kind of awkwardly, but we would happily find ourselves in, you know, constant new toxic relationships, because on a deeper level it resonates with us and it’s familiar in a really loving, nurturing, happy relationship if we’ve never had that. So breaking those two things, the, you know, understanding that we’re always going to choose what’s familiar, and moving away from that identity is a really empowering way to kind of start moving forward. And two things that I would get you to think about. And as you mentioned before, the other thing is, is creating the gap in between the stimulus and response. And, you know, working with a couple of addicts, one of the things that we do is we start so small, because what you’re essentially doing every time, even if it’s the two minutes. Let’s say you know, there’s an alcoholic, even if as soon as you feel the need for the drink. If you’re to delay it by two minutes, you’re starting to change the neural pathways in your brain. And those neural pathways are essentially doing everything. So, if we can start to short circuit them or change the makeup of those neural pathways, even by two minutes, and we’re starting to let you have your power back, instead of the addiction controlling you, which is unfortunately the case of so many.

Natalie K. Douglas 26:35
And do you get people to do like just on that, like I like that, I use something similar but do you get people to do anything in those two minutes? Like, say for speaking with the alcoholic idea. Like, say they felt the urge to have a drink and they’re like, oh, well, Blake said just two minutes and then then I can make my decision, instead of just impulsively going for it? Do you get them to do anything in those two minutes? Like whether it’s like a different distraction or whether it’s actually sitting with their thoughts or journaling? Like what or is it just two minutes and then decide again?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 27:09
It’s, it depends probably what stage they’re at. In the initial stages, I’ll get them to do something. But eventually, I want them to be able to manage their thoughts. So, in the initial stage it might be alright, I noticed you’re paying on a drink, I want you to walk one block. And that’s just breaking that circuit. And eventually what we’re trying to do is open up the space, as we’ve kind of said a couple of times between that stimulus and response. And while we’re working on that area, if you’re breaking the circuit, we’re also doing kind of healing and clearing at the root cause of what got them there. And when we come to kind of ADD in addictions. And even to a certain degree, anxiety, the research is pretty kind of profound around childhood trauma and how bigger impact that has on people that, you know, go down these paths. So, understanding that and doing some kind of healing and clearing starts to attack the issue from two angles in terms of breaking the neural pathways, and clearing and healing at a deeper level.

Natalie K. Douglas 28:17
Yeah, and I think that’s so important, because I, like I would. I’ll tell a bit of a story here, so people can have, you know, a practical example of that. So in terms of childhood trauma, it’s not a huge thing but it’s, it’s an example. And I would say like, so I used to have this fear and I would say I still have it to a degree, but I’m working through it, of traveling. And so and I never understood it. And I always got really kind of frustrated that I would get super anxious anytime I had to travel and I’m talking like even travel to like Queensland. So, I only went on my very first overseas holiday this year to New Zealand. And the reason like after doing a lot of this personal development work and actually diving, it was actually through my yoga teacher training that we kind of took a deep dive back into, you know, limiting core beliefs and underlying triggers. And I kind of started to explore this idea of why is it that I feel an overwhelming sense of anxiety anytime that I am leaving my, you know, comfort zone to go on a holiday in particular. And it led me back to this one time when I was about or I want to say like 10 or 11, and my dad. So, my parents separated, my dad took me and my brother on this holiday to, you know, to somewhere down the coast. And essentially, what ended up happening was I felt really unsafe there and he wouldn’t bring me back home to my mom and I was begging to go back home. So, it was kind of black like, this is no dramatization, but I felt like I been kidnapped because no one would take me back to where I wanted to be. And we were kind of forced to stay outside, upstairs. So, I don’t have a relationship with my dad anymore. So, I can say all this but.

Blake Worrall-Thompson
Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
But you know, and then so from then on, I was never able to go on a holiday because I associated, both leaving my home or leaving my mom or leaving this kind of safety net, where I knew I could get back to with I’m not safe, which is a really core human need. Like, we want to feel safe. And so and you know, I never connected the dots for years and years, I absolute, like I just could not connect the dots. And it would be this and it would kind of integrate into other areas of my life of being the person who, you know, if we’re going somewhere for dinner with a group of friends, and it was like, you know, more than like 10 minutes away. I would never carpool with anyone because I needed to know that I could get home on my own. It’s just so interesting that you know, we can have these triggers and patterns and conditioning in our life that we aren’t aware of until we actually go back and try and understand. And really, I feel like the triggers are an opportunity. Like, instead of trying to run away from them, you know, approach them with curiosity, as as we kind of have mentioned before.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 31:19
Well, the thing with that and one of my favorite sayings is the triggers are your teacher, which if people can lean into that is one of the things that kind of really changed me over the last probably 18 months, is moving from self-development to self-awareness. Because what was happening, as I mentioned earlier was I was just fixated and addicted to, you know, where can I get my next document, essentially, from courses and just change to a lot of journaling, and a lot of like, all that makes me feel like this. And, you know, as it like, I had a pretty challenging upbringing. And for that reason, my safe place was to just have out of my body and stay in my head. So you know, spent most of my head or and so most of my life forcing from that kind of headstrong place, as opposed to feeling my way through things. So, that’s been a really interesting transition over the last couple of years. And I think a lot of blocks, and you know, just through kind of the stigma of feelings and emotions, find themselves in that place. And if there’s been, you know, different forms of trauma, they might even be stronger in that place. So that was, and to be fair, like, that got me a long way. Like, yeah, I wouldn’t listen to people, I just forced my way through and find a way for things to happen. But it also, you know, probably over the last 18 months really brought about my downfall in a number of areas. I kind of had to change my approach. And one of the things I think, you know, with your situation, and you know, I don’t want to put words into your mouth by any means is, you could have these kind of almost embarrassing moments where, you know. Oh, I think as a society, emotionally little bit incapable. And, you know, if you said, I have got a fear of being in a car driving somewhere, and I had my own car hit me like that, like, that’s the weird shit I’ve ever heard. And not knowing that it’s like everything that we do, don’t do say, don’t say, same stems from somewhere. So, most humans don’t have the intellect to go. Like, that’s interesting, why? And that’s all you have to do.

Natalie K. Douglas

Blake Worrall-Thompson
Instead of choosing judgment go, oh, that’s interesting, why? So, a lot of these people are suffering, you know, in silence through shame and guilt, because it’s like, I know, this is super embarrassing. And I know, this makes them look like a four-year-old. But I’ve got this problem. And, you know, I can’t talk to people about it, because they’ll laugh at me and they think I’m, you know, a little bit tired of in it. But we’ve all got them. It’s just how much we can kind of see them or how much we let them shine. And one of the things with you. And I’ll give a personal example with me, which was a really interesting one, and one that I didn’t see for so long, but this might kind of resonate for different people in different struggles, is a thing called an anchor. So essentially, if we have a situation environment for we can anchor a certain feeling to it. And as I said, just then my upbringing was slightly challenging. And to be honest, like, my home environment for me was the most unsafe environment. And as you know, for any human being, the one place where you want to feel safe, comfortable, and you can be yourself it should at home. And for me, that was the last place. And what had happened over years and years of having a pretty kind of uncomfortable home situation is I essentially developed this armor. And what would happen is, you know, I’d be happy at whatever at school, and then as soon as I got home, this is obviously unconscious at this stage of my life is, I would essentially build this armor, like my heart would, you know, going to get ready to go into battle, my stomach would kind of shut down. In terms of feelings I didn’t feel like and what had happened essentially is I had anchored being at home with like, shutting down from an emotional level, and just like, pretty much shutting down there and going up into like, pretty high states of anxiety. And what happened? Yes, I developed this over, you know, 20-year period. And it wasn’t until my ex-girlfriend, you know, we moved in together, she’s not like, literally the moment we walk in the door, like your energy shifts, have you ever done something like, what’s that about? We’ve only moved in, you know, recently and, you know, brought it to the attention of my coach. And she’s like, oh God of course, like, you know, every time you went home, you essentially were preparing, okay, preparing battle for war. So you steal, I’ve got home anchored as this thing. And unfortunately, you know, I’ve got to that point. But what had happened is, I would move in with friends, and you know, some of my best friends. And we’d be having, you know, so much fun and everything else. And these guys wouldn’t say anything, but our relationship would change when I would move in because there was an association of obviously me shutting down, and also people in the house, be more, you know, kind of enemies than friends, just the nature of my upbringing. So, the dynamic of our friendship will change. And they would, you know, often or most of the time it goes back to normal when we didn’t live together. But it would really change when we’re living together because I had this like anchor around what being at home been. So you know, whether people have experienced something exactly that probably not but.

Natalie K. Douglas

Blake Worrall-Thompson
It feels good to understand, you know, this kind of anchoring sensation that can take place.

Natalie K. Douglas 37:00
Yeah, that’s so interesting and so true. And I can think of like multiple other examples in my life, but I want to give more examples. People thinking I have some sanity. No, I’m good with vulnerability at the moment but it’s interesting how you made me think of like, how relationships really are your greatest mirror and teacher in some ways, like, particularly intimate relationships, like I know, with me and my husband, like, oh, gosh, so many like shows me so many of my habits and conditioning, that I’m like, oh, I don’t want to see that.

Blake Worrall-Thompson

Natalie K. Douglas
Unless you’re willing to see it, like, it just, you know, you end up in dysfunction. So it’s, you know, it’s really interesting. And I think it’s, it’s, you know, it’s hard because it’s, it’s really beneficial for that to be brought to your attention, but at the same time it’s confronting and, you know, the person on the receiving end really has to be willing to see it. Otherwise, it just, you know, it’s not very productive, but are just a bit of a tangent there. But you know, I totally agree. And just going back to what you said about people thinking, you know, being scared about saying what their fear is because of the lack of because of being judged by it. And, you know, people are very quite judgmental, for the most part. And, you know, I can resonate with that, because I can’t tell you the amount of times where I’ve said, oh, no, I don’t want to go because I’m scared of traveling. People are like what the fuck is wrong with you?

Blake Worrall-Thompson

Natalie K. Douglas
I was like, you know, I don’t know, like, and then that would make me feel really bad. And so, I think, both, you know, you’re right, like, people just have to be less judgmental, and more curious, because I, in my experience, I would say that, you know, underneath whatever, you know, surface, like what, however, that fear the underlying fear has manifested, like, to me, I’m scared of traveling, for you, you know, the home environment kind of thing. But underneath that there are really common kind of ground for these things that are triggering it, like, I’m not safe. I’m, I don’t belong, I’m not loved or like those would are the ones that I feel like come up the most. But would you agree, would you say that underneath, however, the fear manifests there are a handful of common kind of limiting core beliefs that people hold that that behavior is kind of oh there you go, it’s that’s kind of manifesting in that fear?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 39:34
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s two things when it comes to decisions were making. And this is kind of a little off-topic, but not really. But there’s two ways in which we are working, we’re either working away from pain or towards pleasure. And I agree, unsafe, love, you know, safety kind of elements are often at the base of the fear. And also the driving force of the decisions that we make towards love, towards fulfillments, towards happiness. So often, when I’m working with people on their goals, and their goals, their business alignment between the goals and the decision that they make, and we do things called parts integration. And when we chunk up the decisions that they’re making, everything kind of comes towards that fulfillment, freedom, happiness, love, all of those decisions are steering in that direction. So, it really is, I mean, you know, I look at things like I and different programs like that, a big part of them, despite, you know, you can be challenged getting away from the stigma that I you know, related to kind of I am an alcoholic, is it actually creates such a beautiful kind of environment where people can just lean into the fact that, you know, the struggle is real. And I really do, you know, it’s, it’s jumped out at me over the last kind of six months, I guess more so with my coach and this people are coming to me and going, mate, like, I shouldn’t have anyone to talk to. And nothing, I feel like nothing is worse than, you know, male suicide kind of shows each person is nothing is worse than having this struggle. And essentially, you know, some of the struggles that I’ve had, I’ve been like, how can I possibly made this incompetent in this area where everyone else just makes it look easy. And that was part of the reason that I really wanted to kind of delve into, like, where does like, where does this actually stemmed from? So, the whole suffering silence when you appear to be incompetent in an area of your life, or something embarrassing, or, you know, those feelings that you would have experienced with the travel is, is paralyzing and isolating and can lead to, you know, some really unfortunate situations. And, you know, like I said, kind of male suicide is, you know, just absolutely out of control. And all of these things that we’re talking about, you know, a little pieces to the puzzle that they’re struggling with.

Natalie K. Douglas 42:19
Yeah, and that’s, it’s so true. And I really, like my heart breaks thinking about, you know, male suicide rate, and even just, you know, being I mean, I have an older brother, I have a husband, obviously. I have, like, you know, these males in my life, and I would say, I’ve observed over the years, just how little they talk about their feelings. I mean, my husband’s quite good look, but generally, like how little they’re encouraged to be vulnerable, and I feel like, it’s robbing them of connection. I mean, whether you’re male or female, if you feel like you can’t be vulnerable, or talk about yourself because you associate vulnerability with weakness, then it’s. I just don’t know how you would feel connected. And when no one is really seeing you. Like, I feel like that would bring a real sense of like, loneliness and isolation because yes, you’re, you know, you might be putting yourself in a situation in these social situations and you’re not, you know, lonely from the outside looking in, but you’re sitting there and sharing surface level stuff, when what’s really going on is, you know, being suppressed. And so you feel like you’ve got this social self that you display to everyone, and is, you know, fitting this criteria of fitting in, but then, you know, behind the scenes, it’s this other side that actually really wants to be seen in order to feel, you know, loved and safe and belonged. And I think it’s like, I definitely traveling. I mean, with my, my husband doesn’t mind me talking about him. He definitely experienced that, and I can even see it observing in his different social groups, like you’ll have, you know, gym friends, and then you’ll have like, work friends. And then he has like, these kind of yoga group where, I mean, I’m just they just from yoga, but essentially, what I mean by that is, a lot of them are really quite into personal development, curious about their feelings, and not afraid to be vulnerable. And I see his deepest connections in that group.

Blake Worrall-Thompson

Natalie K. Douglas
Even though I would say, he would call all of them he’s friends. And, you know, you know, I guess, you know, if they’re labeling them, like, they’re all his, quote-unquote, best friends, but the actual real connection comes from the group where he feels like he can be his, you know, self at whatever that feels like on that day.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 44:43
Yeah, completely agree. And to be honest, one of the things that has really jumped out at me is, I think we as a society think that there’s a level of superiorness to females and their emotional intelligence. And, you know, whether it’s granted or not, one of the things that’s really kind of standing out for me is I, because I really am interested in that space, because I’ve felt, you know, different times, you know, real sense of loneliness. And I’ve got, and to be honest, you only need one person, but I’ve got this one person die, who’s been by my side for seven years. And without her, I don’t know where I’d be. But I think a lot of, you know, while we’re trying to, if we’re going to put all blocks into the one category of like, being vulnerable and being open is, yes, there’s 100% a strong issue there but to what I’m noticing is there’s actually blocks who are prepared to go there, but they need the space held for them, in order to go there. So, one of the things that I love kind of teaching is essentially a thing called holding space, which is the ability to ask the right questions, be present, nonjudgmental, and let them be fully seen, fully heard, and fully felt because they will go there if they feel they can’t. And it’s actually, it’s a skill set that not many people have, because I would consider myself happy to be vulnerable. And while I’m still developing, and got lots of development to do. If I knew the environment was right, I would go there, but people are so fixated on, you know, listening with the intent to speak as opposed to just listening, or they feel the need to kind of push their opinion on to you, and actually just don’t have the skill set to hold that space. And just allow someone to kind of fully let the guard down, speak with no judgment, just allowing them. You don’t have to speak. You don’t have to voice your opinion, it’s not about you, it’s about them. And if we learned that skill, it would really start to dissolve the barriers that are really quite strong at the moment.

Natalie K. Douglas 47:01
That is so true. And I think holding your space is definitely it feel like it should be taught in school because it’s so true.

Blake Worrall-Thompson

Natalie K. Douglas
And I think like, you’re right, people listen to just respond, as opposed to listen to understand what you’re actually saying. And I feel like there’s another side of things that a lot of people just want to fix you like, and I don’t necessarily think that that’s helpful. Most of the time, not all the time, most of the time, just in sharing, someone actually is able to see the problem and the resolution themselves and trying to fix someone like it might, it’ll make you feel better because you fit because most people are uncomfortable with other people’s vulnerability. And I feel like that ability to, as you said, just listen without interrupting. And without, yeah, trying to fix the situation is such and especially in relationships where you’re close with someone and, you know, your emotions are quite intertwined. And you, I know it happened a lot in the past in my relationship where my husband just wants to fix the problem. And you know, it’s I would I mean, this is complete generalization, but I think it’s a very boy thing to want to, you know, they’re very practical and logical. A problem comes up, alright, what’s the solution? And I think that can be frustrating for someone on the receiving end, because especially if it’s a female in my experience because sometimes I just want to be heard. But I mean, that’s a complete generalization and.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 48:38
It’s actually not a generalization.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, there you go.

Blake Worrall-Thompson
Men are from Mars and women from Venus is exactly the whole looks pretty much based on that. That bloats. Yeah, yeah. So you’re on the bloats want to be Mr. Big. And I can, you know, firsthand, kind of like, bulb lights on that inside that was that was made. And that’s how that’s how we think that love helps, you know, and often, you know, having a lesson the hard way is I now sit and listen. And you know, my girlfriend will often get frustrated because she’s like, so what do you think? I was like, you know because in the past, I would have happily given my thoughts, whereas.

Natalie K. Douglas 49:28
You are the road map to the solution?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 49:31
Yeah, yeah. I would have already written out solutions but now I’m just sitting there just waiting. And at the end of the day, she wants my opinion, she can ask for it, but I’m not going to give it unless it’s asked for these days that, you know, I feel a lot of that on social media, I give my opinion. But outside of that, I’m happy just kind of listening, which can freak people out there like. But do you want to say something? I was certainly listening. And if you want my opinion, ask for it. But yeah, everyone’s fixated on giving their opinion, and, you know, often from the best place because they think that’s helping.

Natalie K. Douglas

Blake Worrall-Thompson
But you know, I know, even as a bloke, you know, blokes are very much Mr. Fixer and, you know, sometimes I, you know, a lot of the time I want to fix the problem, and every now and then I just want support by being heard. And I’ll get my, you know, I’ll fix it myself. But in that moment, when I’m kind of knackered, and I’m just having a little kind of mini-meltdown, that’s not really the moment where I’m like, okay, let’s put together a, you know, strategy. I can kind of get it out, be heard, be supported, and within 24 hours, I’ll start moving forward on it.

Natalie K. Douglas 50:41
Yeah, totally. And it’s funny, it’s just, yeah, and I think you can, you can, the best approach I found is when those situations come up in relationships, whether it’s, you know, with your partner, or otherwise, like, you know, if someone isn’t holding space for you properly, like, don’t, instead. I found instead of getting frustrated. I’ve definitely done my fair share of getting frustrated.

Blake Worrall-Thompson

Natalie K. Douglas
And defensive, but you know what? Like, after the moments past or whatever, talking to them about what you felt like you needed in that moment, and so that they know what to do next time because I think, you know, how, like, people can’t read minds. And you know, whether they’re male or female, you cannot read minds. And I think communication, like clear communication, from a non-attacking kind of standpoint is so, so helpful. And I know you’ve spoken a lot about it recently. I think on your social media, and I think if people can go and check that out, that’d be good because it’s, there’s an art to the way you say things to people as well.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 51:48
Yeah, it’s a communication skill because if as soon as you start finger-pointing, you’re going to get them in that fight, flight, or freeze state. And when you do that, you’re not going to get an outcome. So it’s very much like the art of communicating is, you know, even if you kind of using that as an example, it’s like I feel, you know, whatever it is, as opposed to you make me feel like just the small change there, and taking ownership of it keeps them out of that kind of fight, flight, or freeze state. And you can actually have communication and get to the bottom of it. Because as soon as they go into that state, they move into a different part of their brain into that kind of survival one. And as soon as that happens, you might as well stop the conversation, because it’s just, you make me feel this, you do this, and it’s just back and forth. And you really get into a toxic space where, you know, neither person is heard. So, it really is a communication style of like, you know, hey babe, I feel this or can we work through this, as opposed to you do this. You know.

Natalie K. Douglas

Blake Worrall-Thompson
And yeah, like I said, is, you might as well stop the conversation right there because it’s just going to lay down a path that isn’t really helpful or healthy in terms of moving through it.

Natalie K. Douglas 53:02
Yep, totally. We implement the I-rule, which is like.

Blake Worrall-Thompson

Natalie K. Douglas
Only speak from I instead of you, because I used to be that, like that. I was very a, you, person. And then, I realized the power of speaking from I, and it’s definitely, definitely helps. But you know, it’s all our journey. Now, I’m conscious of running up to time, but I do have a couple more questions for you. So, we’ve kind of touched on a whole bunch of different topics, and probably really haven’t stuck to a lot of the questions I thought.

Blake Worrall-Thompson
Yeah. That’s alright.

Natalie K. Douglas
It’s a really good spin. But I wanted to know, like that will I feel like there’s a little bit of this idea that mindset coaching is just for someone who, you know, wants to be the next Usain Bolt or Steve Jobs. And I really call bullshit on that. So I’m interested to know, who do you actually think would benefit from a mindset coach?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 53:53
Well, I think anyone. I mean, the way that I’ve, you know, went out when I’m speaking to clients is there’s three groups of people that I kind of work with. One is those that feel like their life is kind of okay, but they’re missing something and that actually tends to be quite a lot of people. Because, you know, the common theme is like, oh I know, I should be more grateful, but I kind of feel like I’m missing something within. And there’s almost like a sense of guilt for like not being more grateful. So, that’s one group. The second is those that tend to have a few of the areas of their life working well, but they want more. So, it might be that you’re good with your, you know, your career and your relationship, your health and fitness is falling away, whatever parts of your life that aren’t working. And the third is probably the most obvious one is like the people with you know, we spoke about willpower and motivation, but the people with the willpower and motivation who can’t seem to stick to the path in having success with their goals. And you know, what is it kind of coming into march now is, I would say, you know, and this is just based on the research that most people now are falling off the bandwagon for their goals. And it would just be another year go by where, you know, they had best intention. And we’re obviously very optimistic and started the year about this being their best year and they haven’t been able to kind of one stick to their goals. But you know, like you and I spoken about the last hour sticking to the goals is a deeper, there’s a deeper issue there. So, it’s really for anyone who’s not having the level of success that they want. And I, you know, have spoken recently on podcasts about any goal that you’re driven towards having a resources element, eg. I’m working with a naturopath, nutritionist, dietitian, hormonal specialist, to help me in this area. And complementary to that, I’m also working with someone who can help me break through the barriers that are holding me back from having more success. And I think that works really well in a number of areas. You know, I even look at people who have got business coaches, all well and good from a resources point of view is a business coach, that’s going to help me you know get from A to B. But I’m also going to work with this mindset coach because I can identify a number of blocks that are stopping me from having more success in my business.

Natalie K. Douglas 56:26
Yeah, totally. I think people I heard the saying, like, people don’t have business problems, they have personal problems.

Blake Worrall-Thompson

Natalie K. Douglas
First in business. So, totally, like, I agree. And I honestly, as a practitioner, if I could get every single one of my clients to go and see a mindset coach, like my success rates would increase even more so than they are because, you know, there’s only so many, like, so much time that I have with them. And my you know, first responsibility is okay, like, you know, how do we actually treat you from a, you know, a biochemistry perspective. And you know, diet lifestyle, but honestly, like, the amount of notes I ride on the mindset side of stuff to try and help them is, you know, it’s half the notes page, but it’s not just enough for me to write it down. People need someone on their side, you know, working through that stuff with them. So, I’m glad that you’re an option and that there are other people out there doing this. Speaking of working with you, if people listening want to work with you, what kind of like do you do one-on-one consults, do you do programs? And where can people find more information?

Blake Worrall-Thompson 57:34
Yep. So both of those at the moment, the one-on-one and 12-week program, and the best spot to catch me would be the website. So BlakeWorallThompson.com. And also my social media, which Instagram is Blake Worrall Thompson whereI’m pretty regular on that in terms of giving people insights, different ways of thinking, you know, some answers as well. So, those would be the two best platforms.

Natalie K. Douglas 58:00
Awesome. Love it. And I’ll pop those in the show notes for everyone. And lucky, last question is, if you could, if you could give someone three tips for living their best life, what would they be? And I know, I’m being mean by limiting it to three.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 58:15
Well, first one is self-awareness, for sure. So, increasing that and that might kind of sound a little bit flippant in terms of what like what actually does that mean but understanding, you know, really listening into what it is that you believe. Listening into, you know, observing how your body feels, with certain situations, people, events, things like that. And also paying attention to your habits. That works really well when you are clear on what you want. So, for example, if you’re losing 10 kilos, or you want to lose 10 kilos, and you’re falling off the bandwagon every second day, then there is a level of self-awareness. It’s required to go, okay, there’s a miss, you know, there’s a misalignment here, it’s not really kind of working for me. So, increasing that self-awareness is definitely. I think, the most important thing because without that, you don’t have a really good platform to move forward. The second is ownership and this probably comes from the hardest part of me, is you know, your coach, your mentor, you know, working with you, all well and good. Because, you know, you’d have all the answers that they need, but there’s a level of ownership that needs to happen, and us as a society, and nowhere near the standard of ownership. I think that we need to really transform. And probably the third is like, an environment that’s really conducive to, you know, your happiness, your fulfillment in the direction that you want to head because we, as humans, like I mentioned earlier, so fixated on belonging, and feeling safe. And for that reason, will often say in an environment, like our school friends from 15 years ago, that we haven’t grown apart, despite that we’ve got nothing in common, or you know, we could all stay at the foody club even though they are, you know, heavy drinkers and aren’t the most respectful when it comes to kind of, you know, women, whatever it may be. So finding a environment that’s aligned with the direction that you want to head. And obviously, role models as well, you know, you become the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And if those five people are holding you back, then the chances of you kind of gain the traction and success that you want are kind of limited. So, really make sure that environments conducive to the direction that you want ahead, and it will be a lot easier for you.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:00:46
I love it. I have to say, Goldstein, I think that’s the best answer we’ve had on the podcast yet. So, I’ll make sure everyone at least listens to that part. No, that’s awesome. And thank you so much for an awesome chat. And I will pop Blake’s details up in the post that goes with this podcast, as well as in the show notes. So thanks, Blake, and we’ll have to have you back on the podcast some time in the future to pick your brain about more stuff.

Blake Worrall-Thompson 1:01:14
Yeah, I think we could have gone for another couple of hours here Nat.

Natalie K. Douglas
I know right.

Blake Worrall-Thompson
But time has run out.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:01:18
That’s it. Have a great day.

Blake Worrall-Thompson
Cheers, Nat. Bye.

Natalie K. Douglas
Hey, guys, just before you go, I wanted to remind you that my 12-week Thyroid Rescue Program is open for enrollments. This program is for anyone with an underactive thyroid or Hashimoto’s disease who wants to transform their thyroid health, energy, mind, and body in 90 days. There is a free webinar on the process I personally use in my clinic every single week to help people do exactly that along with all of the details on Thyroid Rescue. Simply go to NatalieKDouglas.com/thyroid-rescue to check that out. And remember that the time is never going to be perfect to start healing. The perfect time is as soon as you start to noticing sleeping. If nothing changes, nothing changes. So, come get support and a personalized roadmap back to feeling like you. Catch you next time.

Outro 1:02:18
Thanks for tuning in to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. Remember, we love to make the show relevant to you. If you have any questions or topics you’d like us to discuss, just submit them to [email protected] and we’ll get them answered for you. Also, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on iTunes and share it with your friend. And if you’re looking for more info about how we can accelerate your journey to your optimal health, you can find me, Nat, over at NatalieKDouglas.com and Kate at TheHolisticNutritionist.com. See you next time!


The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast - with Natalie K. Douglas and Kate Callaghan

Welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast!

If a professional, polished, well-edited podcast is what you’re after…then we’re not for you!

But if you love unfiltered banter, unedited bloopers and authentic heart sharing then we are your ladies.

We also have the most practical tips on holistic and alternative health care too 😉

Have a question that you want answered on the podcast or want to be interviewed? Get in touch!


Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas ("Nat") is a Holistic Dietitian and Nutritionist dedicated to Thyroid, gut and hormone healing.

Nat shows stressed, burnt out, overwhelmed women how to value their worth again, change their mindset habits, prioritize healing, and reclaim their vitality. Guaranteed.

Her clients say she’s the right girl to see if you’ve tried the conventional approach and nothing has worked.

Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan is a Holistic Nutritionist, Personal Trainer and Lifestyle Coach who specializes in women's hormone healing.

She recognizes that there is no “one size fits all” diet or “magic bullet” which is going to cure all illnesses.

She focuses on having a thorough understanding of your personal goals, needs, likes/dislikes, support networks and lifestyle in order to create a food and lifestyle approach that suits YOU.


Blake Worrall-Thompson | Lifestyle & Performance Coach

Blake Worrall-Thompson | Lifestyle & Performance Coach


Blake Worrall Thompson is one of the most sought after Performance and lifestyle coaches in the country. He has owned and operated a number of fitness training businesses with his most successful creation being the ‘6w2s’ programs – 6 weeks to sexy & 6 weeks to shredded). However after years in the fitness industry Blake has shifted gears slightly and is now known more for his ability to transform lives through his incredible mindset coaching.

Blake is dedicated to helping people break through the barriers that are holding them back from having it all.


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