In Episode 5 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss their personal experiences and philosophy on the pitfalls and perks of the Paleo Diet.

• What is the Paleo Diet
• Benefits of following a Paleo Diet
• What are the pitfalls of the Paleo Diet
• How to tweak that Paleo Diet for different conditions
• “Non Paleo” foods that might actually be good for you

• Are you looking for 1-to-1 support and a step-by-step healing process to overcome your chronic gut health issues? Take a look at my signature program, “Gut Rescue” today.

Natalie K. Douglas  0:02  

Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. My name is Natalie Bourke, holistic dietitian and nutritionist from healthbywholefoods.com.au. And with me, I have our co-host Kate Callaghan, the holistic nutritionist from theholisticnutritionist.com. How are you doing, Kate?

Kate Callaghan  0:22  

I’m good. Thanks. How are you? 

Natalie K. Douglas  0:25  

I’m not too bad at the moment. I am covered in San fly bought apple cider vinegar. And I’m not wearing pants because I got bitten by like 20 sand flies well of San fly baby 20 times and I hadn’t I haven’t read that like lavender oil, which is what I usually use and tea tree oil a good for it, but I didn’t have any. So then I read apple cider vinegar was good, which made sense. So now I’ve got apple cider vinegar, all of my legs and just standing him underpants podcasting as either.

Kate Callaghan  1:00  

Sure you smell and look delightful. Well, I have been thinking this morning was actually when I was trying to get back to sleep after my child woke me up ridiculously early. Yeah, I was thinking we need a music introduction. Oh,

Natalie K. Douglas  1:17  

we totally do.

Kate Callaghan  1:19  

You know, do you know the thing that popped into my hand? I don’t know. Why was the Batman thing? Cuz that’s relevant. Yeah, right. Well, how about that’s up for discussion. Anyway, we should tell us. In other news, I’ve been recently entering week three of my healing, hypothalamic gaming area equals awesome, how’s it going? So Well, the girls amazing, I love them already. But they’re so supportive of each other and seeing lots of changes in mindset, and, and feeling more comfortable and relaxed around foods and sighs it’s Yeah, it’s

Natalie K. Douglas  2:03  

good. Like, so good to see. And it’s so good to have a group of women and just a group of people encouraging each other to be kinda as opposed to encouraging each other to do more and, you know, eat less and negative, like mindset around, I guess, their relationship with their body and with food. And I think it’s really great that people are getting mindset shift, because really, that’s where the magic happens.

Kate Callaghan  2:30  

Exactly. And they are so supportive. So encouraging for each other. And I’ll get up with know, someone’s posted something on a tree than in the middle of the night. And then a whole bunch of them have jumped on and offered all the support and biases. I’m kind of like, Oh, good. Oh,

Natalie K. Douglas  2:46  

thanks, guys.

That’s so good. I think it’s really helpful to be surrounded by that, I think there is definitely power in numbers. And, you know, a lot of the time when you’re going through hypothermic, I’m under, you can feel really isolated. And there are lots of triggers around as well given, you know, are very social media, heavier, heavy lifestyles. So I think that having that support group to, to go back to and reflect with these is really encouraging and knowing that they’re not alone is just a real like, like something I wish I had when I was going through it.

Kate Callaghan  3:24  

Absolutely. Oh, on that note and body image and all that jazz. I went into our embrace the other day.

Natalie K. Douglas  3:29  

Oh, How good

Kate Callaghan  3:30  

was it? Yes. Did you cry? I cry. Do they like the first five minutes? I don’t know, embraces the positive body image documentary that’s just been released in cinemas and around the world, actually, which is awesome. Yeah. It’s a must see for everyone. I think not just women, I think men as well. And it’s so so powerful. It’s incredible.

Natalie K. Douglas  3:52  

Yeah, my, my partner came with me and he was the only male in the room and I was very proud of him. And he loved it. His he agreed like that, you know, every single woman and men and you know, teenagers should be saying this because it’s so it’s just so true. And it so it just warmed my heart and I was just Yeah, I was in tears from from the get go just. But I think it’s it really just, it just rang so true to me. And I could see looking around in the room that everyone else was right there with me.

Kate Callaghan  4:27  

I didn’t look around, I was just crying. And I totally did. I was like, man, am I normal?

Cuz my boyfriend was like crying.

just looked over in those cities in someone else’s eyes. And I’m like, Oh, good. I’m glad you’re feeling some pain. Anyway, everyone should go watch it.

Natalie K. Douglas  4:49  

Yeah, you definitely should. So today, we are talking about the Paleo diet. So we’re going to give you our perspective as holistic dietitians what we are think of the Paleo diet, how we use it in clinical practice and for ourselves. So Kate, you recently got approached by a journalist from body and soul to write to comment on the Paleo diet. And you did a really beautiful post on your own blog with the answers to the questions that they asked you because unfortunately, they didn’t display your full answers by any means. And I think that you did a brilliant job of, I guess, making it clear as to how to implement the Paleo diet in a proper in an appropriate and healthy way and dispelling a few of the myths that are out there around what exactly it is.

Kate Callaghan  5:42  

Yeah, apparently my answers that I provided didn’t link in enough in her paleo bashing story. Hmm. You just not controversial enough?

Natalie K. Douglas  5:52  

Oh, no, she was like taking a photo of yourself eating a table and steak in like a homemade table cloth as underwear or something.

Kate Callaghan  6:01  

Maybe not.

Probably was more miffed because I spent so much time writing the answers. I really, really enjoyed that one little crappy little paragraph. Well, it made for a good blog post on your site. So not always lost. All good one post him from angry rants.

Natalie K. Douglas  6:17  

Yeah, I know. Right? I’ve done many of those. Anyway,

Kate Callaghan  6:23  

anyway, let’s get talking.

Natalie K. Douglas  6:25  

Yes, let’s well. So I guess first, Kate, could you tell us what exactly the Paleo Diet is, from our perspective as holistic dietitian, so when we say paleo diet, what what do we mean?

Kate Callaghan  6:41  

whole food eating Really? And so traditionally, paleo diet, eliminate grains, legumes and dairy. And and I guess we probably promote that as well as an initial starting point for the Paleo template, as I believe we both like to call it Yes, I mean, but other than the main things that it’s going to eliminate, really, that we can all agree on that all ancestral cultures really did eliminate, not just one type of paleo man was what the kind of food like substances of modernity, modernity, we say things like your vegetable oils, and somehow canola, safflower, soybean oil, and your refined carbohydrates. So you your white bread, you don’t know, Twinkies and Mars bars and things that actually sugars, and processed soy, all those things that are great grandma’s even wouldn’t have consumed just kind of these. Yeah, dodgy food like substances. So it’s really about going back to basics. And, and it’s not just about the food. Sounds even sounds wonky. Now, when people go to the Paleo diet, sort of bad diet, lifestyle? Well, it kind of it is, it’s not just about the food that you’re eating, in terms of what you’re putting in your mouth, you’re also thinking about how that food was raised, and kind of thinking about it in terms of, and environmental concerns, as well as nutritional concerns. And that’s a whole other podcast on its own. But also thinking about how we move our bodies in biological appropriate ways in how we treat each other and community and everything and not being so isolated. That’s very much a thing of identity as well, and really get community looking after it to them.

Natalie K. Douglas  8:34  

Yeah, and I agree with, with all of that I really, when I explain it to people in practice, I usually don’t use the word paleo diet. And I know you’re similar in In saying that, we kind of use the word ancestral approach to eating or whole foods or jerk, which is just eat real food, because there is a lot of stigma and a lot of, I guess, misinformation around what the Paleo diet. So I think for a lot of people, they hear the word paleo diet, and they think, Oh, I’m just going to eat meat, for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And I just think it’s, you’re missing the point, if that’s how you’re interpreting it, I think that for me, and I know, it’s the same for you, Kate, the real, if anything, the dominant thing in a paleo diet is actually plant based foods. So most, for all of my clients, I would encourage them to have, you know, their plate with at least half their plate being being plant based foods, because they are so so nutrient dense. And that’s not to say that having meat and that Spain appropriately raised is bad. It’s not, it’s a great source of nutrition as well. However, it’s, I guess, wrong to think that, that’s all that it’s about. And I think that’s the way it’s portrayed in the meteor as well is just a blanket, kind of thing of all, they just ate meat and no attention paid to exactly what kind of meat or where it comes from, how it’s fed, how its raised, how its treated, all those kind of things. So I think that calling it the Paleo diet, in this day, and age is probably just going to get you in arguments, because people have different opinions about it. So I really would encourage people to call it more of a Whole Foods based diet and or, you know, a paleo template, because that’s how we use it. We use it as a template and then we add or remove things from from it, depending on what the person has going on. In in their body and in their life.

Kate Callaghan  10:42  

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely looking at it as a template, a starting point, it’s not a necessarily a forever. And yeah, I talked about this a lot in my book as well how we can get stuck in this one way of thinking and to the detriment of our health and we need to be open and and also realize that if we do even look at paleo man and traditional cultures, there was no one particular paleo diet, all these different cultures had their own variety of eating. Like if we look at the the Inuits, they had a really high percentage of fat we look at and look at heart and ZN, really, almost 90% carbs their diet was and and you know what everyone has in common. They’re all free of chronic disease and free of these crappy new fangled foods. And you’re right when you said about the the veggies and the fresh produce, and net, I think, some research a little while ago, and it’s suggested that traditional cultures consumed up to 150 grams of fiber per day, which is a lot like our recommended dietary intake suggest 25 grams, I think, per day, 30 grams a day, which is woefully inadequate, if you if you put it in the context of 150 grams. Yeah,

Natalie K. Douglas  12:01  

yeah, definitely. And I, I also think that, you know, there’s a bit of a divide between, you know, people who follow a paleo style diet, or people who vote through follow a vegetarian or vegan style diet, when really, I actually think there’s a lot in common. And that might seem silly to some people who are like, what, like, most of you are eating plants, and half of you are eating animals, but really, at the heart of it is a care for what we’re putting in our bodies. And also, people, as Kate said, before, people who of truly following the Paleo diet and the Paleo Diet principles, really do care about sustainability, both from you know, environmental perspective, and also animal welfare in terms of making sure animals aren’t raised in an unnatural confined environment and fed food that isn’t natural to them or healthy for them. But really, I guess, making sure that they are treated ethically. And when we do eat animal products, making sure that we eat the whole animal and not not wasting, you know, some of the most valuable parts of that animal like the organ meats, which are extremely nutrient dense.

Kate Callaghan  13:17  

Yeah, they’re amazing things like liver and kidneys and the heart. And that’s, that’s a practice that’s only been lost recently. I have clients who say, Oh, yeah, my grandma used to do that. Well, my mother used to do that all we grew, we ate up, ate lots of that growing up.

Natalie K. Douglas  13:31  

Yeah, it’s more really our generation, and maybe the generation above, didn’t grow up eating it. Yeah, exactly. And, guys, I just like that just triggered a thought as well. If a lot of people have a bit of fear around Oh, how do I prepare them? Or what do I do? And I know for people living in Sydney, if you’re listening that solo from Star nice organics does some amazing workshops in teaching people how to prepare those kinds of foods as well. And I’m sure there are some people in New Zealand or I’m sure there are people around your area that do that or close to you. And if not, then, you know, just giving it like reading about it a bit more asking a old relative that might not know how to prepare that stuff, or just giving it a go in different ways and not fearing it because it’s different or not familiar to you.

Kate Callaghan  14:23  

Definitely. So good. I do actually have a couple of recipes in my book, and one of them is from solar.

Natalie K. Douglas  14:28  

Oh, there you go. And didn’t you do a video on social media of a liver shot?

Kate Callaghan  14:33  

Because I did do a video. It’s probably my one and only video that I’ve done on my blog. It was a it was a role in this movie shot. It didn’t taste like live it had kind of metallic aftertaste. But effectively frozen Liza with raspberries and a bit of water and you just down it. I had amazing energy. Actually, am I gonna have one after?

Natalie K. Douglas  14:56  

That’s a good idea. Actually, I have liver in the phrase a bit. Unfortunately, when it arrived, I wasn’t home. And then whoever was harmed, just put it in the freezer. And it was like a humongous like thing. And I was like, Oh my god, like, what am I getting?

Kate Callaghan  15:13  

When I do time supply? Yeah, that’s true. I will get to that. I’ll try it. Yeah, I’m sure there are ways to make it taste really good. bread and butter and brandy

Natalie K. Douglas  15:26  

such as life.

Kate Callaghan  15:29  

Anyway, so

Natalie K. Douglas  15:33  

with some vegetables, of course.

Kate Callaghan  15:36  

Moving on. So

Natalie K. Douglas  15:37  

I think that we should probably also point at where it can go wrong or where we see it going wrong, so that people can be aware of the barriers to making it a nutrient dense way of eating. So Kate, what’s something that you see working in working with females a lot who have, you know, maybe hypothermic Omen array or PCs? What do you see often happening with those people when they first start a paleo diet?

Kate Callaghan  16:05  

A lot of the time it’s really restrictive. So they’ll take out grains, legumes and dairy and not replace it with anything. And so then it’ll become kind of woefully inadequate in terms of macronutrients, carbs, fats, proteins, calories, and also in micronutrients. And so when you take things out, you do need to replace them with things.

Natalie K. Douglas  16:25  

So that’s crazy. Yeah.

crazy cat.

Kate Callaghan  16:30  

I know I’m controversial. So if it’s not implemented appropriately, that they can be a risk and nutritional deficiency. So if you jump on board a paleo diet and you just consume the muscle meat of animals and you know, just stick with maybe chicken breast and broccoli and a bit of coconut oil, you’re going to miss out on a bunch of vitamins and minerals. And if you if you do eat, just maybe go down that route of what the media says you should be doing on a paleo diet, then you’re going to be missing out on that those nutrients that you get from those plant based sources. And you’ll probably get constipated from not eating enough fiber. Oh, yes, yes, things will get stuck. It’s important to eat that wide range of foods so so much produce you ate, ate the ramble, I like to say all the different colors, not avoiding those organ meats, but none and I just spoke about so starting with liver I find liver the best one from a taste point of view into from a nutritional standpoint, it has the most bang for your buck, and it’s super cheap, but then always do get organic liver and we don’t store toxins in our liver, but the liver does process toxins. So you don’t really want to have worn out dodgy. You want to help you on that haven’t had to get too much gunk through it. A lot of the things I see with with women especially is going to low carbs, I think there’s that stigma around paleo diet, they all had the bad we don’t carbs, you know, the only non essential nutrient or macro nutrient and, but we do need it in our bloodstream. We need some glucose in our bloodstream and the argument that if you don’t eat it, your body can make it Yeah, that’s true. But it does this by glucose, Neo Genesis and making new glucose from proteins or glycogen analysis by breaking down the stored glucose in your liver and your muscles. And it uses your stress hormones cortisol to do this. So as a woman or even as a man, as your cortisol and stress hormones increase your sex hormones are going to decrease and and that’s not a good result in a not the devil. And you can definitely have paleo approved using air quotes, paleo proven, I say and still have a healthy diet. So if you haven’t like things like Sweet Potato, potato, parsnip, you know,

one pattern, turn it, turn it, I’ve actually never even uttered it, but I really like saying the word.

Anyway, you can make those. I think 10 attempts are the same as Sweden they

Natalie K. Douglas  19:15  

all i think so. They look the same. Yeah,

Kate Callaghan  19:17  

yeah. Oh, God wish know that.

Natalie K. Douglas  19:21  

Sorry, I just like sweet potato so much. So that’s the main thing I eat.

Kate Callaghan  19:27  

We do no acid. Oh,

yeah. It’s just

the Swedes and the parsnips. And they get to sometimes they get cheated a purple. And anyway, and probably the last thing that I would say is the whole bulletproof coffee revolution. So Bulletproof Coffee is basically a coffee blended with butter and coconut oil. So OMCT oil, and completely fine to have as your version of coffee if you want, but not something that should be as a substitute for an actual meal. So a lot of people have this for breakfast instead of an actual meal. This has all these wonderful fats in it. So it’s got butter, it’s got MTT oil, really wonderful nourishing fats in it. But it doesn’t have a lot of vitamins and minerals. It doesn’t have fiber. It doesn’t have much.

Natalie K. Douglas  20:22  

Yeah, and I, you, what I see a lot is people I get really concerned when women who have who are highly stressed or they’re going through adrenal fatigue or HPA axis dysregulation, if you’re someone who doesn’t like the word adrenal fatigue, or if you’re infertile, and you’re trying to bring your your period back, starting off your day. With that isn’t the best way to go about it. You need to be starting your day off with a balanced, just a balance plight that is, is nutrient dense and has all of the macro nutrients on it and just not getting caught. What up in the intermittent fasting and bulletproof coffee type scenario in those situations, because it’s not serving what your body needs right now.

Kate Callaghan  21:11  

Absolutely not. Did I tell you that time when I had bulletproof coffee? No. I almost asked had an office works.

Natalie K. Douglas  21:18  

Oh, gosh. Good.

Kate Callaghan  21:22  

Not good. For many reasons. One I was passed down into I didn’t get a chance to go through office works and get what I needed.

Natalie K. Douglas  21:28  

That’s that’s devastating. Oh, yeah. The day. Yeah, I’m, I mean, I don’t mind bulletproof coffee. But personally, I am recovering from adrenal fatigue. So it’s not something that I include in my, in my diet at like, at all. So but in saying that my partner who is a male is does have it every day, and he does find a fit, and he lacks it, but it doesn’t replace his breakfast day, though. Yeah, perfect.

Kate Callaghan  22:01  

So I don’t I don’t think anyone should start the day with coffee of any sort. I think it’s just setting your body up straight away for this fight or flight state. Yeah, have your food first, and then have your coffee after?

Natalie K. Douglas  22:13  

Yeah, I agree. And I think that it’s probably opposite to what a lot of people are doing, because they love that morning ritual. But you can reflect it’s not to say, as Kate said that you can’t have that as your first state as you’re sorry, in your day, or in your morning routine at some stage. But maybe start off with a glass of lemon water. Or if you’re not really there yet, then started off with your favorite cup of tea, or a dandelion tea, which kind of has a nice rich flavor, like coffee does. It’s definitely not a coffee, but it tastes that it has that same richness. And that can be a way to just have that still warm drink routine in the morning, and have your coffee a bit later. Definitely. And let’s say sorry, I think that they’re probably the main things that I see as well, the two low carb, or, you know, really pigeonholing yourself with a limited range of food, which I think also leads to boredom and a bit of resentment of the diet, or it leads to, I guess, feelings of restriction, when really like focus on what you can eat. There’s so many different types of animal protein. There’s so many different types of healthy fats, there’s so many different types of fruits and vegetables. So keep things interesting and mix it up. And I’m sure you’ll have your favorites. But don’t forget to just like look for inspiration and try different things so that it seems more sustainable and exciting for you. And then I guess Further to that, what we want to talk about now is what foods we kind of consider as gray area foods or through Twitter or eliminated on a traditional paleo diet that can be reintroduced and can the benefit for Sam or if not most people. So Kate, what foods would they be? Or what foods do you usually encourage people to reintroduce once they’ve eliminated them for a period of 30 to 60 days, let’s say?

Kate Callaghan  24:16  

Yeah, so yeah, as you said, eliminating them for 3060 days and see how you feel removing all those foods. And in terms of reintroducing, so the gray area foods and more of your grains, but I’m more prefer the ancient grains like quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth, and maybe sourdough if people can tolerate it, and legumes and dairy, in terms of what I introduce with clients depends on their situation and also depends on their preference. So sometimes if people feel amazing after the 30 to 60 days, and I don’t see those gray area foods, any of the cooling a huge issue that I might say, Okay, what are you missing most? And then we’ll start to reintroduce when maybe some dairy first.

Natalie K. Douglas  25:02  

Yeah. And when you say dairy, what do you what type of dairy? Do you usually encourage them to reintroduce?

Kate Callaghan  25:07  

full fat and processed? Yep, no, no cheese, and yogurt. preferably organic? Probably from the source of you know, and trust. Yeah. But I actually think one that is often not introduced by a lot of people. And that can actually be really beneficial and should be introduced if they’re tolerated. And is legumes. Yep. And I, I’m guilty of not including these enough, and I’m working on it. And having followed a paleo style template for about seven years now and re introducing things. And so that’s been lentils, chickpeas, and they can be a really, really good source of nourishment for the beneficial bacteria and digestive system.

Natalie K. Douglas  25:53  

Yeah, definitely. And I would just say on that, that, Kate, I’m sure you’re probably about to say this anyway. But when you’re reintroducing those, making sure that you’re preparing them properly. So it’s optimal to soak and sprout them, but at least soak them. And I would encourage you to buy organic when you can as well. So just being mindful of that, if you’re someone who has a lot of digestive issues, then you probably will need to go slower on those or it might take a bit of gut healing before you tolerate them. But I think still keep them on your radar as a good source of fiber and other nutrients.

Kate Callaghan  26:29  

Now, what are your thoughts on can legumes?

Natalie K. Douglas  26:32  

Um, look, I think that if someone was having them every single day, then maybe not. But I think that if you’re still sorry, I’d still soak them. Like wash them and soak them anyway. And I would try and get again, it’s BPA free. But in saying that you can’t. If that’s the only way that you’re going to get like yours, then I would still say go for it. But just don’t make it every single day, which I wouldn’t encourage anyone to really do anyway, because I think getting a variety of protein and carbohydrate sources is more beneficial. Cool. What about you? What’s What’s your thoughts on the client? Excellent. You go see we didn’t practices before, guys.

Kate Callaghan  27:21  

That question in Yeah. The coffee.

Natalie K. Douglas  27:25  

Life on the Edge, right?

Kate Callaghan  27:29  

And what are your thoughts on grains?

Natalie K. Douglas  27:30  

Yes. So I personally like you like more of the ancient grains. I do really like white rice, I find most people tolerate that really well. And I find that a lot of CrossFit athletes, which I have a lot of friends who are cross fitters. So, I know and a lot of clients actually too. So that’s something that I really encourage them to reintroduce is a good safe starch and source of carbohydrates to refuel their, their doors. So that one I personally don’t encourage the reintroduction of gluten for many people, I feel like most of us could benefit without having it in there. I do think there are some people that it doesn’t bother, but I feel like that’s the minority. And I also think that there’s more nutrient density in things like buckwheat and amaranth, and King while so I say to focus on those, but I don’t stop people from reintroducing the gluten, I just say, you know, do it and see how you feel. But if you feel anything negative, whether that be a more of a gut symptom, or whether that be a skin reaction, or changes in energy, or sleep or concentration, then there’s an indication to you that these fruits like that’s how that food makes me feel. And then it’s up to the individual, I think as to when they want to when it’s worth it for them. So I never tell people that they can never have this food or that food again, what I say is, it’s really valuable to Rick to eliminate foods for 30 days reintroduce them. And what I would say on that is when you reintroduce foods, reintroduce one new food every three to four days, don’t introduce all the food you’ve eliminated in one day, because you won’t know what you’ve reacted to. So once you’ve reintroduce the foods, I would encourage you to keep a food diary as you do that, as you know food and symptom diary so you can identify when every action has occurred or what that was. And then I think it’s about making informed decisions about your food and what you choose to eat. So if you know that bread makes you feel really bloated, or it makes you a bit brain foggy that you absolutely love your mom’s cheese and tomato sandwich that she brings out on Christmas Day, which probably most people forget something fancy than that. But let’s say

Kate Callaghan  29:58  

my mom doesn’t know how to cook well.

Natalie K. Douglas  30:04  

Anyway, so if you love it and for you, at that time, it’s more worth it to enjoy that occasion and have that choice. And

maybe I should change it to a cake that has lots of gluten in it anyway. Yeah, whatever it is.

That’s okay. Like, that’s your choice. But you’d make that choice knowing what the consequences are for you and your body. And same goes with any other food. So you know, dairy, if you know you’re someone who you love it, but it gives you pimples, then maybe you choose to have it once every now and then or only include it when you’re at so you still get to enjoy it. But you’re not getting that that negative symptom constantly. So I think it’s about making informed decisions, and empowering people and giving people knowledge to make those decisions as opposed to be lacking, you should never eat that again. That’s my approach when I run paleo, quote unquote, paleo elimination challenges.

Kate Callaghan  31:10  

great suggestions. I should also add that even though we’re all like yay for carbs, we do also people who need to follow a low carb diets and people with diabetes or pre diabetes, or obesity or polycystic ovarian syndrome or endometriosis might need a slightly lower carb approach. And we’re all for that we’re very much pro low carb, if and when it’s needed as a therapeutic approach.

Natalie K. Douglas  31:34  

Definitely. And I think that, I guess if you haven’t noticed already, the KYO, this key message we’re trying to send you is that the Paleo Diet is a template. And from there, you need to adjust it according to your situation. And you’re not going to be the same as you know, the person next year who, like Kate said, might have PCs or has other things going on. So really making sure that you are getting caught up in any one way that really listening to your body. And listening to people like Kate and I are other health professionals who are telling you what the signs and symptoms are of different conditions, or I guess what conditions we would change or tweak the Paleo template or ancestral way of eating for that particular condition and then trusting that your body is going to let you know whether it’s working or whether it’s not, and not being afraid to change along the way, because you and your body are not in the same situation that you were two years ago or three years ago when you might have started eating this way. So being open to change and open to experimentation.

Kate Callaghan  32:45  

Definitely, yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas  32:48  

Oh, we totally didn’t, I would I would say it right now. Because it’s important. Now you’ve heard all the information, everybody. I would like to read out our disclaimer, the advice given in this podcast is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from your primary health care physician. The facts and information offered are based on a combination of scientific evidence, clinical practice, experience, and personal experience. So there you go. Wonderful. All right. Well, I think we are coming up to time. So was there anything else, Kate that you wanted to address for people around the Paleo diet or paleo template? Or could you tell people where they can find your article that you wrote on the

Kate Callaghan  33:34  

Find my article on my website at the holistic nutritionist calm, and it’s called what I actually think of the Paleo diet, I’m so creative. And I talk a lot about this in my book, holistic nutrition as well, which is now available all over the place, man, if you really want to get your hands on it, and you’re not in Australia or New Zealand, send me an email and I can send you out a signed copy.

Natalie K. Douglas  33:57  

One of those

Kate Callaghan  33:59  

find one shouldn’t just signed copy. I waved my sign up. No,

Natalie K. Douglas  34:04  

no, I didn’t vote. I think there was only on your book launch, there was only cash and I didn’t have cash with me. So anyway, small problems. We’ll figure that out. So I guess everybody you know where to find us both because we’ve said it multiple times. And if you would be so kind as to leave a review, review or review even on iTunes, that would be great. And don’t forget to send us any questions or suggestions for topics that you have, you can either comment on some of the posts where we post our podcast, or you can send either of us an email, which you can do via our websites. So I hope everyone enjoyed that podcast and isn’t too concerned about implementing a Paleo Diet when done properly. And I will speak to you guys all next week. Kate, you have a lovely afternoon.

Kate Callaghan  35:02  

Thanks, night you too.

Natalie K. Douglas  35:04  

All right. Bye. Hi.