#39 Premenstrual Syndrome (PMS) - Our Best Natural Treatments

The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast


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"When you've got your hormones healthy and balanced with a range of natural treatment strategies, then your period shouldn't be a big event every month that you're dreading. Premenstrual syndrome (PMS) shouldn't be especially painful or inconvenient, and if it is then we shouldn't 'normalize' this for women."

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In Episode 39 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss how to cure premenstrual syndrome (PMS) and how to treat PMS naturally.
  • What is PMS?
  • Should we just accept PMS as part of “being a woman?”
  • What are the causes of PMS?
  • What dietary changes can we make to help with PMS?
  • Can exercise help with PMS? If so, which kind?
  • Supplements to help treat PMS
  • Essential oils for PMS

Intro 0:00
Welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast where you’ll find the inspiration and answers to how you can become the healthiest, happiest version of you using whole food nutrition, smart supplementation, movement, and lifestyle hacks. Your host, Natalie Bourke and Kate Callaghan, a degree-qualified Dietitians and Nutritionists, certified fitness instructors, speakers, and authors with extensive knowledge and clinical experience in the wellness industry. So sit back and enjoy the show.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:39
Welcome back to the podcast everyone. Kate, what’s happening?

Kate Callaghan 0:45
I literally just muted myself right after getting Ed.

Natalie K. Douglas

Kate Callaghan
Ed was coughing so I’m just I’m just hanging out with Ed who, who woke up early from his nap and so we have a friend joining us. There he is, he’s saying hello and he just square himself in an almond water.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:01
That’s the spirit. Thanks, Ed. Thanks for joining us. He actually responded. All right. Cool.

Kate Callaghan 1:08
How are you? What’s new with you?

Natalie K. Douglas 1:12
I’m good. So, as you know, but not everyone may know is that I just got back from New Zealand and I visited you Kate which was awesome. I had a really good time, it was really it was really relaxing and then coming back I actually realized how crazy frantic busy with Sydney is so that’s my big realization that I’m probably going to try and not be here forever.

Kate Callaghan 1:37
Yeah, I love I love Sydney in my 20s and partying and everything. Then when I was done to partying, I want to have a baby in Sydney was not doing it for me.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:48
Yeah, yeah. Pretty much how I’m feeling right now. But yes, we’ll make a long-term goal in as opposed to be my impatient impulsive self and just being like, all right, moving right now.

Kate Callaghan 2:03
Yeah, well, we can, I did that within three months that was bit impulsive.

Natalie K. Douglas 2:09
Yeah, well, I can’t. Unfortunately, Bowen’s not very impulsive at all. So I’ll have to have a good 12-month plan.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, probably smart.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, exactly. Anyway, um, so today, we are actually talking about PMS and we did get some questions sent through to us. So what we’ll do is Kate, did you want to just read those questions out so everyone’s aware that submitted the questions that we will answer them, but just read them out for everyone’s purposes?

Kate Callaghan
I sure can. So the first one is, how do we know when you can attribute behavior or emotions to PMS versus potentially just being irrational or unreasonable? Then the other ones, I’m just switching in between Facebook and Insta, the other one on Facebook by Claire. So that one was from I shouldn’t say a name, it doesn’t matter. It was from Kate, no, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. And Claire asked on Facebook. I’m interested in the ClaryCalm essential oil you mentioned before and how is PMS symptoms, and also anything vital in menstruating women should have in her diet, either it’s pill or supplement?

Natalie K. Douglas 3:26
Awesome. Okay, well, I suspect we will answer most of those questions as we go. But if we get to the end of the podcast, and we haven’t, we’ll circle back and make sure we had answered that thoroughly. Where I thought we would start is just basically what is PMS in case anyone’s unsure. So basically it stands for Premenstrual Syndrome and it refers to a collection of physical symptoms accompanied by a few emotional or mental symptoms that usually arise in pattern. So for majority of women, their symptom will occur in the second half of their cycle, and subside once menstruation starts. Examples of the symptoms might include things like cramping, bloating, breast tenderness, or breast tenderness or pain, low libido, anxiety, fatigue, depression, brain fog, acne, changes in appetite, stomach upset, nausea or vomiting, issues with sleep, and headaches or menstrual migraines. So for lots of women, PMS, you know, obviously all those symptoms are very inconvenient and shouldn’t be happening and you don’t, you know, a healthy period won’t have those. But there is actually kind of like 3 to 8% of women who will experience those exact same symptoms, but actually, to a much worse degree, so much like so, so much so that it’s going to interfere with daily activities. And in that situation, it’s actually referred to as PMD, PMDD, sorry, so Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder. So, some differentiating symptoms they are that usually people are experiencing a decreased interest in their usual activities, they have difficulty concentrating, the irritability and anger is much worse and it might actually cause increased conflict in relationships, there will be feelings of being overwhelmed or out of control, feeling constant tension, depression, extreme anxiety, sadness, or hopelessness, or feeling, you know, worthless, insomnia, or on the opposite spectrum, excessive sleeping. So we won’t go into that topic specifically today. But just know that many of the strategies that are going to help with PMS will also help with PMDD but I’d also be looking at additional investigations on top of that, we can totally make another podcast out of that down the track but for now, we’ll just stick with PMS. And hopefully, everyone understands that kind of differentiating between the two. Kate, one question that I often get, or I often kind of ponder is, should we actually just accept PMS as part of being a woman? It makes me quite angry when people assume that our yet it’s just part of what it is to be a woman but what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that women should just accept that PMS is part of life?

Kate Callaghan 6:48
Yeah, no. I mean, to a certain degree, we should accept a little bit of fluctuation in emotions due to our fluctuating hormones throughout the cycle. I mean, our hormones naturally fluctuate throughout the cycle with estrogen increasing in the follicular phase, and then progesterone increasing in the luteal phase. But really PMS as you just described it Nat, is it’s common, but it’s not really normal and so, no, we shouldn’t just accepted as part of being a woman and it’s a sign of a deeper hormonal imbalance, really, and something that we need to address. And do you know that when you’ve got your hormones all sorted, and they’re all healthy and in balance, then your period should kind of kind of be a bit of a non-event. You should, it should be, but sometimes, if you aren’t tracking your cycle and you don’t know where do you become it might often be a surprise. You’ll go, uh, I didn’t even notice that I was changing. And then my period was coming, it just arrived and then it should be, yeah, a non-event.

Natalie K. Douglas 7:52
Awesome. Yeah, totally agree. And I think that’s a good thing for people to keep in mind. Both that it isn’t normal to have PMS, but as you mentioned, it can be normal for some fluctuation because we have hormones that are naturally and helpfully fluctuating so.

Kate Callaghan
On that note, I think we should be okay with that and not trying to suppress our emotions all the time because because we have that fear of being portrayed as a woman with PMS, or irrational or irritable.

Natalie K. Douglas
Just embrace the crazy sometimes.

Kate Callaghan
Crazy, yeah, and express your emotions, otherwise, they just going to bottle up inside you and exploding one way or another down the track.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, I’m gonna make sure my partner listens to this. No, he already knows that. Anyway, moving on. So, next, I guess we wanted to chat about the causes of PMS. So I might cover some kind of dietary influences of PMS and then maybe we can talk a bit about lifestyle or environment things. So in terms of diet, in a nutshell, it’s basically a contributor to PMS would be following an inflammatory diet. So, I’d say the consumption of standard of a standard Australian or American diet that’s reaching processed foods is the easiest way to put it. But obviously, a lot of our listeners aren’t sitting in that category. So for you guys, it would be more so if you’re eating sugar, industrial seed oils, dairy, soy, or even if you’re quote-unquote, paleo, but are going a bit hard on the Paleo treats, which are often still heavy in sugar from dates, or honey or whatever, and also are often quite reaching nuts, which not so awesome in moderate amounts, but too much, and you’re likely throwing off that balance between anti inflammatory omega-3s and pro inflammatory omega-6 fats. Another common one that gets missed is, if you’re following a whole-foods based diet, but you’re relying on eating out a lot, and the places you’re choosing to eat out at are cooking in vegetable oils. So it’s not going to be an issue a couple of times a week, but what I’m talking about here is the people that are buying multiple meals at a day, in places where there’s, they’re cooking vegetable oils a lot. So it’s not, you know, avoid at all costs, like you have to live in, you know, the reality is a lot of places where we eat out, use those oils still, but if you’re doing it daily, that’s when it becomes more of an issue. Also, I’d say in my clinical practice experience, I find, I personally find women following a vegan or vegetarian diet that’s quite heavy in grains, soy, perhaps gluten, and possibly dairy if they’re including that in their kind of vegetarian diet. I actually find that they seem to struggle more with PMS related symptoms. And I’m definitely not saying that that’s the case for everyone following that kind of diet. And I’m also not saying you can’t be healthy while following one of these diet, but I am just sharing what my experience is with this. So on the flip side, once we start to shift them more to a plant-based diet rich in vegetables, but with the addition of some good quality animal protein, adequate healthy fats and get some balance back between fats, carbs, protein, etc. And you know, getting rid of the sugar, the dairy, the soy, and the overconsumption of grains, I find a lot of improvement. And I like, I get that it’s certainly not as sexy. It’s certainly not as sexy sipping some bone broth or having a bowl of canned salmon, veggies and butter compared to like a kale and apple juice with an escape try infused granola top disciple, but sometimes.

Kate Callaghan

Natalie K. Douglas
I actually want mine one of those but sometimes you just going to do what you going to do. So, I would also probably mention that in relation to that kind of situation in terms of vegan-vegetarian diet correlating more with PMS, in my clinical practice, at least, I don’t think it’s just what these women are eating. It’s also what they’re not eating, or what nutrients they’re not getting enough of that is super important for balancing hormones. So, the key players being B vitamins, particularly B6, and B12, and B9, actually, let’s just go with all the B-vitamins, zinc, long chain omega-3, so EPA and DHA, magnesium, and adequate protein which contain important amino acids needed to actually support hormones, detoxification, and neurotransmitters to mental health. I feel like I could keep going, but I’m kind of sick of my voice now. So, anything to add Kate like diet stuff, or just jump into lifestyle or environmental factors?

Kate Callaghan
So a couple potential dietary thing that you might also want to look at. And so it’d be a Debbie Downer, caffeine and alcohol.

Natalie K. Douglas
I knew you were gonna say that.

Kate Callaghan
So, caffeine for the reason that it can increase inflammation, some people if you’re having too much, especially if you’re having non-organic coffee, it’s one of the most highly sprayed crops in the world. So please, always have organic coffee going to have it. But it can also, you know, raises stress hormones, it’s going to simultaneously decrease your sex hormones. So progesterone and estrogen, and especially having that progesterone, it’s important for healthy moods and feeling good in that. Sorry, sorry about this.

Natalie K. Douglas
It’s all right.

Kate Callaghan
How rude, he just likes to interrupt. Come on, come on, man. Put yourself out. We’re trying to talk here.

Natalie K. Douglas 13:59
He just agreed.

Kate Callaghan
So it can deplete those sex hormones that we want floating around in that pre-menstrual phase to make us feel good physically, mentally, emotionally. Alcohol can affect your hormones in a few ways. So it can disrupt your gut bacteria, and it can also disrupt your liver, obviously. And those are really, really important for metabolism of your hormones. And if you’ve got too much estrogen not being metabolized properly and excrete it, then you’re going to experience those premenstrual syndrome symptoms as well. And you know, too much alcohol is highly highly inflammatory. I think we often overlook that in our society, just because it’s so part of our culture, but it’s really, it’s not a health food.

Natalie K. Douglas
No. Ransack red wine and the resveratrol and antioxidant, like do you know how much you have to actually drink to get that?

Kate Callaghan 14:56
Exactly. But um, in terms of lifestyle factors so the biggest contributor would be stress. And I know that sounds so boring again, but we always bet on about it and I feel like a broken record. But again, stress is going to deplete that progesterone production, which is going to. So that progesterone is really important for calming and anxiety stabilizing your moods in that premenstrual phase, it’s going to deplete all sex hormone production, really. And so really getting on top of that and being mindful of that. Other lifestyle factors, lack of exercise will potentially impact your PMS, and exposure to environmental toxins as well because we know that inflammation, as you said Nat, is really a huge contributor to PMS through contributing to that hormone imbalance. So, anything in your environment, the chemicals that you’re using in your house for cleaning, for your garden, for your cars, for skincare products, perfumes, all of these things that you have in your house synthetic chemicals, if they’re polluting your air in and out of your house, then they’re going to disrupt your hormones and contribute to PMS.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:11
Yeah, that’s a huge one. Like, what, like, really, what are you putting on. Your skin is a huge huge place for women to start because there are so many people, so many women who are still using conventional products. And like, I’m going to I’m going to be harsh here and say like, it’s there are much better natural alternatives that still do just as good job. And, you know, it’s like, it’s not as limited in terms of what’s available from both a cost perspective and also just stuff that works like there’s, there’s no excuse now. If you know what you know, and you’ve got PMS symptoms, or you’ve got detoxification issues, any kind of hormonal inflammatory any health issue, and you still are dismissing that as something that doesn’t matter, like you’re doing yourself a massive disservice and there are absolutely things, products that you can completely replace every single chemical that you’re putting on your skin with. And we’ll talk more about essential oils, which is a great place to start. But even just basic switches like you know, change what you’re washing your face with or change your makeup to something more natural or hair conditioners like just work your way through one thing at a time. And you don’t have to spend huge bucks to do that. Like there are lots of cheap alternatives that are still just as good like washing your face with like an olive oil like doing that oil cleansing method is a good idea. In terms of cheap black olive oil, you can find like a good quality olive oil in the supermarket even and use that but of course there are more sexier options which you can go for your life with. But yeah, I just I really feel like there’s no excuse anymore to dismiss it as there’s nothing that works or it’s too expensive. I call bullshit on that. Sorry, everybody.

Kate Callaghan
No, I totally agree. I wash my face with Dr. Bronner’s Castile so.

Natalie K. Douglas

Kate Callaghan
For 18 bucks a bottle and the bottle lasts forever do use a teeny teeny tiny spots but yeah, cheap, effective, non toxic. It’s like 18 uses for the Dr. Bronner’s Castile so.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Kate Callaghan 18:31
You can wash it all the way and wash your face.

Natalie K. Douglas 18:34
Oh my god, once, you know that Dr. Bronner’s soap, there’s one that’s like peppermint. I once wash my vagina with that, never again.

Kate Callaghan
No. No.

Natalie K. Douglas
I’ve never felt so on fire in my life.

Kate Callaghan 18:46
And not in a good way.

Natalie K. Douglas 18:56
Yeah. Not in a good way.

Kate Callaghan
The girl was on fire.

Natalie K. Douglas
And I just could not get it out. I was like wishing it won’t sag. Burn. I even called my mom like, mom.

Kate Callaghan
I put that near in my vagina. People, don’t put peppermint near your vagina.

Natalie K. Douglas
I was like 24 as well. It’s not like I was, you know, seven and accidentally put some peppermint oil on my vagina. It’s like, this is a real issue. Anyway, just don’t do that, everybody. Alright, cool. So, I guess, was there anything else you wanted to add to that story? I think maybe sleep? Did you want to mention sleep?

Kate Callaghan 19:29

Natalie K. Douglas

Kate Callaghan
So, yes, obviously sleep is important as well for overall hormone balance and for detoxification, you know, when we sleep, it’s when we’re going through that detoxification renewal repair process. And it’s really important for overall hormone imbalance especially insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance. If you’re not getting a good night’s sleep, that then that is going to impact insulin, which is going to have a flow on effect of impacting all of your hormones, really. So sleep is key. I, as I said before, sleep and stress are so much more important than nutrition and movement. If you don’t have sleep and stress in check, then you could be eating the best diet in the world, you probably still won’t get results. Sorry.

Natalie K. Douglas 20:15
Totally. And I’m definitely an example of that. That happened to me. I was eating so well doing all these right things but I wasn’t sleeping well and I was stressed out in my brain and my periods were terrible so.

Kate Callaghan 20:27

Natalie K. Douglas 20:29
Yes, definitely, do not ignore that side of things. Moving on to supplement. So we could probably go on forever about these because there are actually a shitload of supplements that can help with PMS, depending on what’s driving it. My I’m going to try and choose a few. I’m sorry if I take all the good ones, but my go-to, it’s like my favorite little combination for pretty much everyone is zinc, magnesium, B6, cod liver oil, but from there, it will kind of depend on the person. I’ll always assess their thyroid function because it affects everything and as you guys know, is my main clinic area of clinical focus. So I’m a bit obsessed with it, but I’ll look at whether they need iodine and not just for thyroid, but it actually helps to stabilize and down regulate estrogen receptors. So, I’d also look at things to help boost progesterone, like vitex and vitamin C. And also look at estrogen clearing supplements like DIM and calcium D-glucrate. Sorry, I’ll try and stop myself there. So if you have any to add, but I know I took a fair few of the good ones.

Kate Callaghan 21:45
You stole them all.

Natalie K. Douglas
I know. Which are your favorites. Like reinforce what your favorites are there?

Kate Callaghan 21:49
Magnesium, definitely. B6, definitely. Um, yeah, you mentioned cod liver oil to provide those omega-3 fatty acids or and reducing inflammation. If you’ve been on the pill, and your hormones are wonky and getting PMS then you probably want to look at a really good quality multi but also especially zinc. Did you say probiotic?

Natalie K. Douglas 22:09
No, I didn’t, but good one.

Kate Callaghan 22:14
Whoop whoop.Because again, the gut health is really, really important for our hormone health and that clearance of excess estrogens. One more would potentially be a calcium supplement as, as calcium carbonate or citrate, which has been shown to reduce PMS by quite a bit.

Natalie K. Douglas
Nice. I like it.

Kate Callaghan
Actually, one more, herbs. What are your thoughts on St. John’s-wort for people who struggle with PMS?

Natalie K. Douglas 22:40
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s great, especially, like it actually has anti inflammatory properties as well as helping with depression, which we actually know is driven by inflammation. Um, yeah, and it also can be helped with pain. So, yeah, absolutely. Go for it. Just be aware that there are a lot of interactions with medication. So just check before you start yourself on that and also know that sometimes it can take a little while to kick in.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, especially if you’re already taking any some antidepressants.

Natalie K. Douglas

Kate Callaghan
Really really important to not take pharmaceutical antidepressants and St. John’s-wort together before getting any sort of clearance with your doctor.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes, absolutely. Now, I realized I skipped a question that I wanted to address, which was, actually what dietary changes can we make to help with PMS. So, just briefly, I mean, pretty much the opposite of what I said in terms of what you shouldn’t be doing. I don’t know if that makes sense. Anyway. So the key changes would be to remove dairy, gluten, soy, alcohol, and sugar for a good eight weeks or at least significantly reduce them. I’d also probably add coffee into that, you know, maybe like, yeah, I don’t know. I would add coffee into that if you can handle it but I also understand a lot of people are attached to it. Include around four to five cups of vegetables each day. So, seasonal, variety, colorful is best, include a couple of servings of high quality animal protein each day to get adequate B vitamins, zinc, and complete protein, and make an effort to include some fatty fish four to five times a week in that too. So, any easy one. So like so like wild-caught salmon. Wild-caught canned salmon is a really easy one for lunch or dinner. I often put that in my lunches because I’m busiest during the day so I would rather something that’s fast, as opposed to having too cooked. Include a daily serve of fermented foods to support gut health and this therefore support clearance of toxins and excess estrogen. Don’t ignore water consumption. So drink at least two liters of water a day, more if you’re exercising or if you’re in a hot climate and make sure it’s filtered. There’s a lot of stuff, a lot of toxins, a lot of hormone disruptors that actually come through standard tap water. So if you can switch to filtered water, that’s great. There are lots of water filter options available now that are more cost effective. And also, I probably add, don’t go to low carb. So if you don’t tolerate carbs super well then maybe just be strategic with where you put them. So around your workout, particularly after your workout. And at dinner time is best or is when your body is going to be able to deal with them best, will get the most benefit. If you don’t have any issues with tolerating them. You don’t have any insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome then just include some gentle carbs at each meal. So sweet potato, you know, rice, quinoa, buckwheat, try and soak them to help with their digestibility. But yeah, I would I would probably do that. Was there any additional things you wanted to add to that, Kate?

Kate Callaghan 26:19
I put myself on silent again. I think it was doing if you can make anything with bunch of simple process. To those of you who are interested.

Natalie K. Douglas
Well, I told you I put peppermint oil on my vagina so we can share whatever you like.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, cool. Um, no, I think that’s, that was really good list. I would maybe, if people are getting friends especially. Maybe try some red raspberry leaf tea.

Natalie K. Douglas

Kate Callaghan
They’re really good uterine tonic that can help sometimes.

Natalie K. Douglas 26:36
Awesome. And then um, I guess the other thing is, what about exercise? Can exercise actually help with PMS? And if so, what kind do you recommend?

Kate Callaghan 26:47
Yeah, it absolutely can. So, there’s a lot of research around how exercise can help PMS in terms of reducing pain, but mostly for that mental-emotional support. Because as we know, when we do exercise, we release endorphins and those feel good chemicals in our body. The research really shows you know around 30 minutes of aerobic exercise a day is perfect. So, whatever that looks like to you go for a brisk walk outside is best obviously. Getting that sunlight in and take that vitamin D really important and the beneficial healing powers of nature as well but you could do a little bit of weight training if you feel good. Everyone’s going to feel different in different parts of their cycles. So, just get to know what works for you and don’t go too hard if you don’t feel like going hard, but just get some movement. It might just be some gentle yoga. Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:38
Awesome. I love it. Pretty much. Just listen to your body, move every day.

Kate Callaghan
Pretty much.

Natalie K. Douglas
And do what you like. Do what you love to do.

Kate Callaghan 27:46
Yeah. If you’re already a cranky bitch thing you’re not going to want to exercise that makes you more of a cranky bitch.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:59
You heard it here first guys. Oh, wow. All right. Well.

Kate Callaghan 28:00
Highly inappropriate.

Natalie K. Douglas 28:03
Explicit. All right, well, on that note, to help further with balancing hormones or treating PMS. Let’s talk about essential oils. So you mentioned ClaryCalm and that was one question that got sent through. Do you want to chat a little bit about that?

Kate Callaghan 28:23
Yeah, so, we talk about essential oils all day but ClaryCalm is the one we were specifically asked about in the I often pat on about for helping women’s lady moon time. So ClaryCalm is the doTERRA monthly blend for women so it has in it clary sage, lavender, bergamot, Roman chamomile, ylang ylang, cedarwood, geranium, fennel, carrot seed, vitex, so vitex is chasteberry and we all know how vitex can help support hormone imbalance by nourishing the pituitary gland but clary sage is really the the bomb diggity in terms of hormone support when it comes to essential oils so clary sage is really important for helping to balance estrogens. There’s a lot of research around this and people have been using it for years and years and years. Lavender is very soothing. Bergamot helps to relieve stress intention. Roman chamomile, it’s very antispasmodic.Sorry, Ed fell over a little bit. He’s got a big head. Yeah, it’s kind of. Often or sometimes. So, Roman chamomile, you know it was calming. It has relaxing properties. Cedarwood, helps to soothe nervous tension. Ylang ylang, one of my favorites. It’s an overall kind of equalizer balancer. Do you want to cuddle? Here we go. Ylang ylang is right for perfume as well, so non-toxic perfume and geranium also really great for overall hormone imbalance, and the carrot seed is being shown to help regulate menstruation. You can diffuse it but most people will apply ClaryCalm. I usually apply it to the inside and outside of my right ankle to help support hormone imbalance. So that corresponds with the ovaries and uterus in terms of the reflexology points. I haven’t got my period back because I’m breastfeeding like a mofo.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:17
I’m not sure what that looks like but.

Kate Callaghan 30:20
Breastfeeding all through the night really because I have a little milk monster and still breastfeeding Olivia, gosh she turns three next week.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:26
All of the. All the milk is going to Ed’s head, right?

Kate Callaghan 30:31
Uh, god. Big head. On the 91st percentile. But I know women who have a period and they have applied ClaryCalm over their abdomen as well and that’s really helped with any cramping and it helps to regulate periods and some of them have even commented that their husbands have commented in the improvement in mood and tolerance and overall reduction in psycho female that we often think of as part of being women but not.

Natalie K. Douglas 31:08
Yeah, I love it. Good. Very very diplomatic answer there.

Kate Callaghan 31:13
But there are bunch of other essential oils that are really good as well like Frankincense is awesome for nourishing the pituitary gland, which is going to be important for overall hormone imbalance. And then as we were speaking about before, Nat, getting out to those environmental toxins by replacing them with the pure essential oils, and to make your your cleaning products or your skincare products, really really effective cleaning products, really effective skincare products. And again, I’m coming from a place of having worked extensively with Clarins skincare, which is the prestige skincare brand, not non toxic. And I would say the skincare that I use now you know my cheapo, Dr. Bronner’s castile soap and my serum made with carrier oils and pure essential oils, are more effective than the Clarins that I used way back when in my 20s.

Natalie K. Douglas

Kate Callaghan
So, if anyone is interested in getting some essential oils, you can reach out to either myself or Nat, and we will hook you up because again, if you’re trying to get the chemicals out of your life by using essential oils, you don’t want to use non pure, non toxic essential oils that potentially have chemicals and fillers in them.

Natalie K. Douglas 32:24
Yes, exactly. I like it. You did well to keep that pretty concise. Well done.

Kate Callaghan 32:28
Oh, look, I have seven pages in front of me. Clary sage oil can support hormones but, oh, yeah, that was just off the cuff.

Natalie K. Douglas 32:36
Nice. Just read a little off the brain. No, that’s really good. And I think that’s a great place to to start to wrap up. I think that hopefully we’ve answered all of those questions from the beginning, I believe we have, the one maybe I just wanted to revisit and reinforce was the one about how do you know if you’re just regularly crazy or if it’s hormones driving it? I probably, I’ll share a couple of things that I, like couple of my thoughts. And then Kate, you can add to it. One thought would be to try some of the strategies we’ve suggested and see if things improve, and also get your hormones tested would be too. Kate, what would you add to that?

Kate Callaghan 33:21
I would say take note of when the irritability and craziness is occurring. If it’s around the same time of month, every month, then that’s probably your hormones, if it’s kind of on and off throughout the month know kind of pattern then maybe you just need to engage in some stress-reducing activities and personal developments work.

Natalie K. Douglas 33:49
Yeah. What else could be driving it so totally, like you’re not, it doesn’t mean that you’re just crazy, it means perhaps, you know, imbalances in progesterone and estrogen aren’t specifically the things that are driving it for you but something else is.

Kate Callaghan 34:04
It could be anything. It could be, I don’t know, relationships in your life not working. It could be your work, like not being as satisfying as you had hoped it to be or just just not living in your absolute truth. So yeah, so don’t worry about it and pay attention to what’s going on in every aspect of your life.

Natalie K. Douglas 34:22
Exactly. And get some help like it, someone outside the situation to just be a sounding board for you. It’s not that we, you know, often we know intuitively what’s going on, but sometimes we need to actually voice it. And for someone to just hold space for us to do that in order to realize or make the connection in in a conscious way about, okay, what’s maybe going on for us.

Kate Callaghan 34:50
Yeah, hundred percent agree. Many would turn into hippies.

Natalie K. Douglas
I know. Gosh.

Kate Callaghan

Natalie K. Douglas 34:57
I don’t want to do. I felt like such a hippie being in a camper van. I was like, damn. I’m like even looking at where all my waste is going. I’m pouring it down this hole. Like, I just, I’m doing it. I can’t say I loved it though. I’m not a I’m not a camper van-er.

Kate Callaghan
Oh, I was jealous. I want to do it.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah. No, like, like there are elements to it that I liked. But I like the whole small space thing and yeah. I would probably if I did it over again, I would probably stay in cheap motels that drive around it forward drive. It just gets you places a lot quicker, but it was definitely an experience and I would recommend that everyone does at least once but yeah, I’m admitting that I’m not a camper van-er.

Kate Callaghan 35:45
Kate would admit that and embrace it.

Natalie K. Douglas 35:48
Yeah. Give me a hotel or like an Airbnb any day.

Kate Callaghan 35:53
I’m thinking it wrong. I’m probably like that whole thing. I do like camping. I’m a camper, maybe.

Natalie K. Douglas
I didn’t, I’ll stop going on about this now but.

Kate Callaghan
Can I can I offer one more recommendation. If people do have PMS or any period problems really, check out Lara Briden’s book, Period Repair Manual. It’s awesome. And she’s got some great solutions in there for a whole host of period concerns in treating PMS.

Natalie K. Douglas 36:22
Yeah, totally. I’d also check out your blog. You’ve got plenty of awesome blog posts on PMS-related things or just hormone related things and also reach out to either of us for a consultation if you’re feeling like you need more individualized attention to get on top of things because that’s always available and can definitely be helpful.

Kate Callaghan 36:43
Actually, do you know, what I should say? Kind of laughable, my book.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, yeah.

Kate Callaghan
So, I promote everyone else. So my book Holistic Nutrition has a lot, it’s all about that. Whoops, sorry, publishers.

Natalie K. Douglas

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, check out my book. It’s really good.

Natalie K. Douglas 37:10
Yeah, no, here your book is is very good. And I would definitely recommend that. Awesome. So we will wrap it up there. And we will talk to you all in a couple of weeks time. Kate, have a lovely day.

Kate Callaghan
Thank, Nat, you too.

Natalie K. Douglas

Outro 37:26
Thanks for tuning in to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. Remember, we love to make the show relevant to you. So, if you have any questions or topics you’d like discussed on the show, simply submit them to [email protected] or [email protected] and we’ll get them answered for you. Also, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on iTunes and share it with your friends and family too. Need more personalized nutrition advice? Why not invest in a consultation to accelerate your journey to your optimal health. You can find Nat over at HealthByWholefoods.com.au and Kate at TheHolisticNutritionist.com. See you next time guys.


The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast - with Natalie K. Douglas and Kate Callaghan

Welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast!

If a professional, polished, well-edited podcast is what you’re after…then we’re not for you!

But if you love unfiltered banter, unedited bloopers and authentic heart sharing then we are your ladies.

We also have the most practical tips on holistic and alternative health care too 😉

Have a question that you want answered on the podcast or want to be interviewed? Get in touch!


Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas shows women with Thyroid problems how to heal themselves in less than 30 minutes a day. Guaranteed.

Over the past decade, she's helped treat over 10,000 Australian women, trained more than 5,000 health practitioners.

Her clients say she’s the right girl to see if you’ve tried the conventional approach and nothing has worked.

Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan is a Holistic Nutritionist, Personal Trainer and Lifestyle Coach who specializes in women's hormone healing.

She recognizes that there is no “one size fits all” diet or “magic bullet” which is going to cure all illnesses.

She focuses on having a thorough understanding of your personal goals, needs, likes/dislikes, support networks and lifestyle in order to create a food and lifestyle approach that suits YOU.


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