• Signs you may be consuming too little carbohydrates
• What to expect when reintroducing carbs, including what are normal teething issues and what may be a bigger problem
• Tips/strategies on reintroducing carbs: types, how many, ways to make the transition easier
• What to do if you are still experiencing issues after reintroducing carbs including addressing hormones, gut health and thyroid health

• Are you looking for 1-to-1 support and a step-by-step healing process to overcome your chronic gut health issues? Take a look at my signature program, “Gut Rescue” today.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:01
Hello and welcome to the holistic nutritionist podcast. My name is Natalie Burke, holistic dietitian and nutritionist from health by whole foods.com.au. And with me as always, I have Kate Callahan, the holistic nutritionist from the holistic nutritionist calm, Kate, how you going? I’m good. And as always, we also have Ed with us. Hey, and for those of you who don’t know, Ed is Kate’s beautiful, adorable son. And sometimes he likes to provide some background noise for us, which we don’t mind and hopefully you don’t either.

Kate Callaghan 0:35
I’ll try and Natalie K. Douglas 0:01
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. My name is Natalie Bourke, Holistic Dietitian and Nutritionist from HealthByWholeFoods.com.au and with me as always, I have Kate Callaghan, the Holistic Nutritionist from TheHolisticNutritionist.com. Kate, how you are you going?

Kate Callaghan
I’m good. And as always, we also have Ed with us.

Natalie K. Douglas
Hey, Ed. For those of you who don’t know, Ed is Kate’s beautiful, adorable son. And sometimes he likes to provide some background noise for us, which we don’t mind and hopefully, you don’t either.

Kate Callaghan 0:35
I’ll try and mute myself when he’s going a little bit too, too annoying.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:38
A bit too much bass in the background.

Kate Callaghan 0:41
When he’s interrupting you, it’s just a little bit rude.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:44
Yeah, that’s all right. He’ll, maybe when he when he can like talk properly. We should totally have him on the podcast. Might be a few years, but that’s okay.

Kate Callaghan 0:52
Sure, Olivia would have a lot to say.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, probably.

Kate Callaghan
You know, I was listening to music yesterday in the car listening to the Doors, Roadhouse blues came on. Like she really like the doors and started singing. And she pipes up from the back and just goes, I like Baa Baa Black Sheep. Okay.

Natalie K. Douglas
Thanks to you.

Kate Callaghan
Singing Baa Baa Black Sheep when in the car.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, no. Oh, nevermind.

Kate Callaghan
Never mind. Kids.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:22
I know well, I can’t say I know the experience yet. But I was I was definitely an Olivia kind of kid. Like I was a bit attention and like, I wanted to have my say but that’s okay.

Kate Callaghan 1:33
Well, there you go and you turned out pretty good.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah. We’re all right. My mom probably would say that it was a bit challenging but that’s okay. I used to like, my brother was the opposite to me. Like he didn’t really like attention and wanted to be kind of like in the shadows. And he used to like when heaps of sporting trophies and I used to like get them and I’d post with them like and take the photos and he just be like standing there like, do I have to be in the photo. Anyway, I’m a typical Leo, but that’s okay. All right. Well, today, guys, we’re actually going to talk about reintroducing carbohydrates. So for a lot of people listening, you probably would have been on a low-carbohydrate diet at some point, or you may be currently on one. And I think that if you’ve been following us for a while, for the most part, we probably don’t recommend low-carbohydrate diets. For people in terms of just general health, generally, we’re using low-carbohydrate diets for specific conditions, which we’ve definitely spoken about in the past. So we’re thinking more neurological, neurological conditions, metabolic syndrome, those kind of things. But I think I’m just taking an educated guess here. But for most of our listeners, that’s you’re not like most people aren’t in that can. And I think we have more people who maybe just going to like trying to reach optimal health, they may have some hormonal imbalances, maybe some gut issues, those kind of things. And when we really want to, today, discuss how how that transition from a really low carbohydrate or even no carbohydrate diet can kind of can go can play out, because I think that when you’re reintroducing carbohydrates from not having very many at all, there are a lot of kind of symptoms that you can experience that may like at that at face value, you may feel like oh, my God, like this is bad, I shouldn’t reintroduce these, but I would call them more like teething issues that for the most part, you should just kind of persist through or persist with and they will go away. But we kind of want to go through that process and and discuss with you what is normal, what’s not normal, and give you some tips and strategies in terms of what that kind of reintroduction might look like. So Kate, first up, I thought I would get you to chat a little bit about why would someone move from a low-carbohydrate to a high-carbohydrate diet or higher carbohydrate diet? So not high, but just why would someone want to reintroduce more carbs? What kind of signs or symptoms would they be, would they be experiencing to indicate that that might be something to look at?

Kate Callaghan 4:21
Yeah, a good question Nat. And I’ll preface this by saying we’re not speaking, just speaking from a professional point of view, I think we’ve both been in the low-carb camp.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Which is kind of messed us in the past. And that’s kind of why we’re so passionate about spreading the word. We’re not, as you said Nat, we’re not anti-low-carb, low-carb can really serve a purpose with things like polycystic ovarian syndrome, diabetes, obesity, and neurological conditions. But there’s many times when we need to just pull ourselves out and say, this is not working. So a few things that you might lookout for some big alarm bells, the biggest alarm bell would be missing periods, or your period going wonky. So in by wonky, I mean it’s getting lighter, cycles getting longer if they were regular, or yet completely going altogether. So you need to look at your period as your monthly report card. Your period is a sign of your overall health because it’s kind of it’s not um, it’s not essential function but it is a sign of optimal health. So if it goes a bit dodgy, listen, pay attention, and change things. Another sign that again, that I got as well, which I didn’t connect the dots at that time because I was stubborn and just go, no, low-carb is the only way.

Natalie K. Douglas 5:48
Yeah. I feel Yeah.

Kate Callaghan 5:49
Which were true and I’m slowly, surely some people that they’re going, oh, yes, I’ve been in that camp of just being so set in my ways, and it can happen with all diets but we need to be flexible, because there is no perfect diet for everyone. And there’s no perfect diet, even for you that’s going to suit at all times. So my diet 10 years ago was very different to my diet 15 years ago to now because I’m breastfeeding two children now. So I’m eating all the food.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah. You are.

Kate Callaghan
But it’s different to have investing in 10 years’ time as well, I probably won’t eat as much. So another sign to look out for is lack of muscle gain or and of muscle wasting if you are doing some strength training on a regular basis and the reason why this happens is so this is kind of the the argument from the low-carb camp is we don’t need to eat carbohydrates because our body makes carbohydrates. Yes, this is true but it will make those carbohydrates through a process of gluconeogenesis, which is making new glucose from proteins, which you will get from, can get from the diet or it’ll break down glycogen. So glycogenolysis, and that glycogen comes from your muscles, glycogen comes from your liver, protein comes from muscles as well. So this can be a consequence of going to low-carb is that muscle wastage to provide the glucose to your body that it needs to function to your brain that it needs to function. I’m sure there’s some people who are going to take us off always but that’s okay, you can, I welcome discussion.

Natalie K. Douglas
Nice.

Kate Callaghan
Another sign would be fatigue. So to start with when I was following a low-carb diet I felt really good and a lot of people do, if you’re really going to start with and but after a few months, everything just kind of went south. So then this was full on fatigue is in. Sorry, Ed was just laughing at me.

Natalie K. Douglas
He thinks you’re a fool.

Kate Callaghan
So cute. So distracting. So I would wake up in the morning, I would have a double shot of espresso, I’ve got one and see a PT client, then I come back, have a nap, get up again and have a double shot of espresso repeat. I do maybe three double shot of espressos every day and I would still fall asleep very easily at night and feel exhausted because I just burnt my adrenals out, because I should also mention that the gluconeogenesis and the glycogenolysis process requires our cortisol. And we know that cortisol is our stress hormone. So I was using that stress hormone to try and pick myself up and to also get that glucose that my body needed. So fatigue, big warning sign, thyroid issues, your thyroid needs carbohydrates to release that insulin pull the conversion of T4 your inactive thyroid to T3 your active thyroid. Something, if you want to look more into this Anthony Colpo, has written a big, big, big long post on carbs and thyroid. So it’s it’s too much for us to go into get here. But please know that carbs are important for your thyroid. And then the final big thing that I would suggest looking out for would be changes in bowel movements in a not positive direction. So this could be constipation, from say, lack of fiber, or it could be diarrhea from inability to tolerate the amount of fats that you’re having.

Natalie K. Douglas 9:20
Yeah, good ones. Yeah, I think those, like you pretty much covered off all of them. And the only one I would add would be difficulty sleeping, as well, which which can definitely happen. So I think they’re all definitely I, like, I hear when you mentioned a lot of those, as you said, Kate, with both experience going really low-carb and like you, mine worked for a period of time, and I felt amazing and then it just didn’t work. And I was too stubborn. I was like, no, it has to work because it worked in the past. But if it’s, if something’s not working, then it’s not working and you need to change direction. And those are all very significant warning signs. And I think it’s important to listen to that and act on it. And we’ll give you some tips in terms of actually doing that. So, look, let’s say that you’ve accepted that, hey, you fit into that camp that there, that maybe low-carb isn’t quite working for you, as well as it once did and you’re experiencing some of those signs or symptoms that we just mentioned, then we want to start to reintroduce carbs. But when you do start to reintroduce carbohydrates, when you’ve been on a very low-carbohydrate diet, a few things can happen. So one thing that can happen is that you might experience a little bit of bloating. And sometimes, that’s because of a kind of slight down-regulation of the digestive enzymes that break down carbohydrates, therefore, kind of creating a more difficult to digest environment and sometimes resulting in a little bit of bloating, sometimes it can be because you are reintroducing more fiber or prebiotic foods and the bacteria that you do have in your gut can start to to feed off that when and that can temporarily again create a little bit of transient bloating. And the other thing that often happens is that what people kind of mistake, I guess a little bit of water retention for bloating. So carbohydrates hold water and some people initially will retain more water when they first add carbohydrates back in and it’s very easy to mistake, a little bit of water retention for bloating because you do, you will feel a little bit different in your clothes and in your body but it should pass as well. The other thing that can happen is if you are someone who’s weighing yourself regularly, which we wouldn’t advise, but a lot of people do do it. So I thought I’d mention it is that you will likely see some weight gain on the scales. And again, that’s going back to the fact that carbohydrates hold water, the more water you’re holding, the more you’re going to appear like heavier on the scales. So I wouldn’t take any notice of that number because it is just a sign of, Hey, I’m holding more water at the moment. But it is just something to be aware of and not to freak out about it’s not fat gain, it’s just that you’re holding more water. And probably the last thing that that can happen is you may experience some kind of blood sugar dips and highs. So if that’s happening, usually, like your body will adjust. But if it hasn’t adjusted, then I’d say that there is something more going on than just a transient kind of period that you’re going through. So given those kind of signs, they’re all quite normal, but they should pass you know, kind of within the month, or at least by two months, that should be all those should be completely gone. But in terms of actually reintroducing carbohydrates and going through that process, there are definitely some tips or strategies that you can use to step through, step yourself through that process, and minimize some of those symptoms. So Kate, do you, when you’re getting someone to reintroduce carbohydrates to their diet of going from coming from a really low-carbohydrate diet, are there any kind of tips or strategies that you mentioned to people to help them with that transition?

Kate Callaghan 13:25
Yeah, definitely. It’s going milk requirement. So, I would suggest number one, start slowly. So if you’ve been low-carb, I wouldn’t advise going to a high-carb diet in one day. And I would even start as small as you know, a quarter cup of carbs per meal depending on how low-carb you were before. So it’s all relative to how low-carb you personally were. But gradually gradually increasing slowly. Chewing your food as well. So chew chew chew your food really well when we chew our food we release more saliva and when we release saliva we release more of the enzyme amylase and amylase is required to break down at starches to complex complex starches and complex carbohydrates. So chew chew chew your food to help to help that digestion. Choose whole-food carbs that are easy to digest and that cooked well, so things like sweet potato that’s being roasted, even potato that’s being roasted, parsnip, even less dense sources of carbs and maybe, pumpkin, beetroot, carrot again depending on how low-carb you were. Slowly reintroducing easy to digest fruits, chew, chew, chew. And then you can try some gluten-free grains after that if you wanted to, so things like quinoa after you soaked it overnight and rinsed it to improve the digestibility of it. For some reason, I don’t know about you Nat, but I’ve tested this theory with clients as well. White quinoa soaked and rinsed is absolutely fine. Black and red quinoa soaked and rinsed is not, it’ll always end up in my poo.

Natalie K. Douglas 15:15
Yeah, that’s interesting, I actually, find. So, I haven’t had that experience. But a lot of people I find get quite bloated or uncomfortable with quinoa in general, like whereas the other grains like buckwheat, rice, oats, they’re, they’re fine. I find that really interesting. And I actually have experienced the same, the same kind of thing, but I’ve I’ve never I’ve never really had the feedback of the different colors. But that’s interesting. I might try that theory and and see what happens.

Kate Callaghan 15:48
Chugga y poop. Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, I will, I always do.

Kate Callaghan
So a couple of other things that can help with that introduction, if you do find that you are getting quite bloated and quite quite a little tummy you can try some peppermint essential oil for those of you out there who are using doTERRA oils you can try the DigestZen essential oil applied topically if diluted with Fractionated Coconut Oil first, then apply that topically to decrease the bloating. I also like something called Pau D’Arco tea for digestive upset and that’s P A U it’s the first word. Second word is D, plus tree A R C O.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:31
Yep. Awesome. And then, I was just going to add that you could also use digestive enzymes if you are really having a hard time just temporarily, as well.

Kate Callaghan 16:43
Yeah, I was also gonna say activated charcoal. What are your thoughts on activated charcoal?

Natalie K. Douglas 16:46
Yeah, I think it can be really helpful, I would say, I’d probably get people to have it away from their meals. Like sometimes it can help with gas and bloating, kind of after you’ve eaten, but I try to avoid people having it with their meals straight away because it can bind all the vitamins and minerals. But if you’re only doing it a few times, it’s okay. But generally what I’ll do is if people find that they’ve had dinner and then a couple of hours or an hour later, they’re still feeling a little bit bloated, then definitely a little bit of activated charcoal can help can help with that a little bit as well. But like you I also use DigestZen by by doTERRA sometimes to help with that or I use another supplement called Iberogast by Flordis, I think it is. And that can be really helpful as well. But it’s just trying a few different things and seeing what works for you, I think.

Kate Callaghan 17:40
Definitely. Sorry, I was muted.

Natalie K. Douglas 17:42
That’s right, I thought you were. And then the only other thing I would add as well to that is to make sure that you’re not eating when you’re stressed or feeling super emotional because again, it’s going to inhibit your ability to digest your food. And I would also say that if your symptoms that you’re feeling are more related to the fact that you’re getting kind of like deep-sea in blood sugar, after you’ve had your meals or between your meals, I would say make sure that you’re not eating carbohydrates alone. So make sure you’re having some fat and some protein, or at least one of those nutrients with that meal that you’re having the carbohydrates because that will help as well. And then the other thing that can be beneficial is is timing your carbohydrates. So popping them before and after your workouts is a good place to put them. If you’re having, if the reason why you’re reintroducing carbohydrates is because you’ve had difficulty or you’re having difficulty with sleep, then definitely having some carbohydrates with dinner or as a pre-bed snack is also a good idea because it can help with producing serotonin and melatonin and therefore helping you with staying asleep. And it can also help stabilize your blood sugar levels throughout the night because often what happens is, if people who don’t have great blood sugar control, and their their blood sugar is dipping throughout the night, your body will wake up because of that because it needs to bring those levels those blood sugar levels back up. So it will spike cortisol. And that’s what causes you to wake up. So sometimes a pre-bed snack of something that contains you know, slower digesting carbohydrates, so maybe some sweet potato, maybe a banana alongside some protein or some fat or both. So if you tolerate dairy, you could do some full-fat yogurt, you could do some peanut butter, you could do another kind of natural seed, you could do some coconut yogurt, anything like that, that can also be really helpful to just carry you through the night and not cause that your body to wake up. So that’s another strategy that I often get people to do, but it’s all dependent and look, try all the different strategies out and see what works best for you. And then I guess, if all of the above suggestions are that you know you do all of those things and you’re still experiencing, you know, significant bloating or abdominal discomfort, then I would say that that’s probably an indication that there’s something underlying or there’s something more going on. So, I would be looking into things like SIBO, so Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, I’d be looking at potential food intolerances or parasites. That’s kind of from a gut perspective. If you are still experiencing blood sugar, like kind of dips, then I would be looking into stress and cortisol, I’d maybe be looking at getting a bit of a picture of your blood sugar levels and your insulin levels through pathology, pathology testing. And then on the hormonal front, Kate, if someone still experiencing infrequent periods despite adding in more carbohydrates, or if they’re still experiencing light periods, or changes there, what would you suggest that they look into?

Kate Callaghan 21:15
I would suggest they do my course.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:18
I would agree with that suggestion. So just for those who don’t know, what’s your course called?

Kate Callaghan 21:25
It’s called Healing Hypothalamic Amenorrhea and that.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:33
That was a very well-timed question. We didn’t plan that everybody.

Kate Callaghan 21:35
So eating more carbs, definitely. But if that’s not cutting it, and it generally won’t be the one thing if your periods are missing, or if they’re going scanty. You’ll need to definitely look at stress management, you need to definitely look at total calories, so increasing total calories, so you’re eating more when you’re burning off. So, exercising less and then you need to look at some smart supplementation as well. And that really depends on why your periods have gone missing as to what I would suggest for for the missing periods but you need to kind of pay attention to all of the things.

Natalie K. Douglas 22:12
Yeah, definitely. And I’d say if you’re someone who had, you know, you started to produce more carbs, because you had, you were kind of had or stolen your weight loss journey, because a lot of people that can happen in terms. One reason why I might get someone to reintroduce more carbohydrates is if they’ve hit a bit of a plateau on their weight loss journey. And if that’s you, and then you reintroduce more carbs, and you’re finding that either you’re still gaining weight, or you’re still not seeing results, then I would definitely be looking into doing a comprehensive thyroid panel. I’d also be looking into stress. I’d also be looking into the amount of exercise you’re doing and even the type of exercise you’re doing, and definitely sleep as well. So it’s, it’s really important that, you know, I think, like a good way to approach these kinds of issues is to try the things that are the lowest hanging fruit first. So reintroducing carbohydrates is going to be a lot easier to do as an experiment, than going into spending thousands of dollars on testing straight up. So I think that what your wise to do is to try that experiment. First, try using all the tips and strategies we’ve given you. And I’d say in terms of like a timeline, I’d give it a couple of months for your body to adjust and for you to make a true assessment of whether it’s working or whether the issues are getting worse or persisting. And then I would say it’s time to do further investigation. And that’s when it can be really helpful to actually speak to a practitioner who can kind of look at your case, from the outside and develop a bit of a strategy for you in a plan going forward. Because sometimes it does involve testing, sometimes it might be a case of looking at other areas of your diet, sometimes it will involve just looking at sleep, sometimes it will be looking at stress exercises, lots of different factors that can that can change how we would advise someone to proceed. But I think we have a lot of control over our health. And there’s a lot of things you can do if you’re on a budget, before you go and spend money seeing a practitioner, and I think re-introducing carbohydrates is one of those, one of those things. And as Kate said, go slow, I think Kate you, that you mentioned a quarter of a cup of carbohydrates, I think that’s a really great place to start. And in terms of how many carbohydrates you should introduce, that’s really going to depend on on your situation. So I would just reintroduce, like start to reintroduce them and see it kind of keep tie trading up until you feel better. But I probably wouldn’t transition to a really high-carbohydrate diet unless you had a specific need to do that in like in terms of you are really active, or you’re like an athlete of some kind. But I would just kind of aim, I guess is a minimum to add about a quarter of a cup to each of your main meals. And if you haven’t seen a change by then, then that’s when I would maybe maintain on that for a couple of months and then look at addressing the other factors that could be underlying causes to the issues that we’ve mentioned.

Kate Callaghan 25:36
Yeah, I’m on that, I do, I would encourage people to if they’re feeling good, increase that amount. So I started on a quarter cup. But so for women with amenorrhea, I like to aim for around one cup of carbs with each main meal and half a cup with each snack as a guide.

Natalie K. Douglas 25:51
Nice. That’s good. That’s a good, a good kind of aim as well. So I think, Kate, would you agree around like two months or so to to really notice a significant change or do you do it longer than that? or shorter than that? What’s your kind of opinion on on how long people should stick with something before they start to investigate underlying issues?

Kate Callaghan 26:15
With period changes, I generally recommend at least three months.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Because it takes 100 days for the egg to go from start to finish.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
I think finish ovulation to make its little journey. But otherwise, yeah, a couple of months. So if it’s non purely related a couple of months, if it’s purely related at least three months.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Although things like it can take a long time.

Natalie K. Douglas 26:41
Yeah, that’s true. Very true. All right. Well, hopefully, that’s kind of given everyone a bit of a roadmap to reintroducing carbohydrates and some strategies to to use along the way, I think that the biggest message we want to send is not to stick doing something if it’s not working. So make sure you’re like, don’t feel reintroducing carbohydrates just because it’s, it’s the thing that changed your health in the first instance, it as Kate said, our diet should and will change over time. And it’s okay for that to happen. And I think that it’s, it’s worth experimenting, because time and time again, we say really low-carbohydrate diets for females, in particular, not working long term. So short, short term can be really helpful. And as we mentioned, in certain conditions can also be really helpful. But I would say for the most part, most of my female clients do better on a moderate carbohydrate diet.

Kate Callaghan 27:43
Agreed, I talk a lot about this in my book as well. So if anyone wants to grab my book, Holistic Nutrition: Eat Well, Train Smart and Be Kind to Your Body. I talk a lot about carbs.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:51
I feel like that would be a great Christmas present, or even like a New Year’s resolution present.

Kate Callaghan
Yep.

Natalie K. Douglas
So everyone should do that. And on that note, while we’re telling everyone about our resources, I also have my e-book Healing Digestive Discomfort. So if you find that you’re that person that, you know, you reintroduce some carbohydrates. And after kind of like two months or so you’re still experiencing all of those gut issues, then I would definitely recommend picking up that e-book and having a read about what could be the issue for you. It will give you some guides into what signs and symptoms to look out for for specific conditions and where to go in terms of testing and some tips on on treatment as well. So I think between us, we’ve got the bases covered. But as we said, as well, if if you can afford to invest in seeing a practitioner that can also fast track that process for you, as well. So keep all of those tips in line. And if you do have any questions in relation to anything that we’ve mentioned today, or want us to expand on anything that we’ve discussed then feel free, to, write into us. Kate, did you want to just let everyone know about when the next HA course may be running, when you, do have a rough estimate in terms of a month that people can look out for?

Kate Callaghan 29:14
Yes, I’m hoping to run in February. And so I’ll be starting to put more information about how to get on the waiting list for that. Yeah, and so it’ll be eight weeks from February.

Natalie K. Douglas
Excellent.

Kate Callaghan
Eight weeks. Eight weeks long, so we’re starting February, and it’ll be eight weeks long.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:31
Nice. Well, we’ll keep an eye out for that. In the meantime, everyone, we hope you have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and we will talk to you guys in 2018. Oh my gosh, I can’t believe it’s going to be 2019. All right, Kate, was there anything you wanted to add before we wrap up?

Kate Callaghan 29:52
Just Merry Christmas.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:54
Whoo. All right. Well, I will speak to you in a couple of weeks. Have a lovely day.

Kate Callaghan 29:59
Thanks, Nat. Bye.

Natalie K. Douglas
Bye.

mute myself a little bit too.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:38
A bit too much bass in the background.

Kate Callaghan 0:41
But he’s interrupting you just a little bit rude. Yeah,

Natalie K. Douglas 0:44
yeah, that’s all right. He’ll maybe when he when he can like tour properly. We should totally have you on the podcast.

Kate Callaghan 0:52
Might be a few years, but that’s okay. Olivia would have a lot to say. Yeah, I was listening to music yesterday. car into the doors, Roadhouse, blues came on actually locked the doors and started singing. And she pops up from the back and just goes, I like Baa Baa Black Sheep. Okay. Oh, no. Oh, nevermind. Mind. Never mind. Kids.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:22
I Well, I can’t say I know the experience yet. But I was I was definitely an Olivia kind of kid. Like I was a bit attention and like, I wanted to have my say,

Kate Callaghan 1:33
but you turned out pretty good. Yeah. We’re all right.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:37
My mom probably would say that was a bit challenging. But that’s okay. I used to like, my brother was opposite to me. Like he didn’t really like attention and wanted to be kind of like in the shadows. And he used to like when heaps of sporting trophies and I used to like, get them and I’d post with them like and take the photos and he just be like standing there like to activate the photo. Anyway, I’m a typical layer, but that’s okay. All right. Well, today, guys, we’re actually going to talk about reintroducing carbohydrates. So for a lot of people listening, he probably would have been on a low carbohydrate diet at some point, or you may be currently on one. And I think that if you’ve been following us for a while, for the most part, we probably don’t recommend low carbohydrate diets. For people in terms of just general health generally, were using low carbohydrate diets for specific conditions, which we’ve definitely spoken about in the past. So we’re thinking more neurological induced neurological conditions, metabolic syndrome, those kind of things. But I think I’m just taking an educated guess here. But for most of our listeners, that’s you’re not like most people aren’t in that can. And I think we have more people who maybe just going to like trying to reach out to health, they may have some hormonal imbalances, maybe some gut issues, those kind of things. And when you really want to, today discuss how how that transition from a really low carbohydrate, or even no carbohydrate diet can kind of can go can play out, because I think that when you’re reintroducing carbohydrates from not having very many at all, there are a lot of kind of symptoms that you can experience that may look at that at face value, you may feel like oh, my God, like this is bad, I shouldn’t reintroduce these, but I would call them more like teething issues that for the most part, you should just kind of persist through or persist with and they will go away. But we kind of want to go through that process and and discuss with you what is normal, what’s not normal, and give you some tips and strategies in terms of what that kind of reintroduction might look like. So Kate, first up, I thought I would get you to to chat a little bit of that. Why would someone move from a low carbohydrate to a high carbohydrate diet or higher carbohydrate diet? So not high? But just why would someone want to reintroduce more carbs? What kind of signs or symptoms would they be? Would they be experiencing? To indicate that that might be something to look at?

Kate Callaghan 4:21
Yeah, good question. And I’ll preface this by saying we’re not speak just speaking from a professional point of view, I think we’ve both been in the low carb camp, which is kind of volume and stuff in the past. And that’s kind of why we’re so passionate about spreading the word we’re not, as you said that when I anti low carb, low carb can really serve a purpose with things like polycystic ovarian syndrome, diabetes, obesity and neurological conditions. But there’s many times when we need to just pull ourselves out and say, This is not working. And so a few things that you might look out for some big alarm bells, the biggest alarm go would be missing periods, or your period going wonky. So in by wonky, I mean it getting lighter cycles getting longer if they were regular, or yet completely going all together. And so you need to look at your period as your monthly report card. Your period is a sign of your overall health. And because it’s kind of it’s not um, it’s not essential function. And but it is a sign of optimal health. So if it goes a bit dodgy, listen, pay attention and change things. And another sign that again, that I got as well, which I didn’t connect the dots at the time because I was stubborn and just go No, low carb is the only way.

Natalie K. Douglas 5:48
I feel Yeah.

Kate Callaghan 5:49
And I’m slowly but surely some people that I got, oh, yes, I’ve been in that camp or just being so set in my ways, and it can happen with all diets. And we need to be flexible, because there is no perfect diet for everyone. And there’s no perfect diet, even for you that’s going to suit at all times. So my diet 10 years ago was very different to my diet 15 years ago, to now because I’m breastfeeding to children now. So I’m eating all the food. In 10 years time as well, I probably won’t eat as much. And so another sign to look out for is an lack of muscle gain or and all muscle wasting if you doing some strength training on a regular basis. And the reason why this happens is this is kind of the the argument from the low carb camp is we don’t need to eat carbohydrates because our body makes carbohydrates. And yes, this is true. But it will make those carbohydrates through a process of glucose Neo Genesis, which is making new glucose from proteins, which you will get from can get from the diet or it’ll break down glycogen. So glycogen, Alexis, that glycogen comes from your muscles, and glycogen comes from your liver. And protein comes from muscles as well. So this can be a consequence of going to low carb. And is that muscle wastage to provide the glucose to your body that it needs to function to your brain that it needs to function? I’m sure there’s some people who are going to take us off always but that’s okay you can I welcome discussion and not sign would be at fatigue. So to start with what I was following her look, how do I I don’t really go into and a lot of people do if you’re really going to start with and but after a few months, everything just kind of went south. So then this was full on fatigue is in. Sorry, it was just laughing me to a few. So distracting. So I would wake up in the morning, I would have a double shot espresso, I’ve got one and CPT client, then I come back, have a nap, get up again and have a double shot of espresso repeat a do maybe three double shot espressos every day and I would still fall asleep very easily at night and feel exhausted. And because I just burnt my adrenal out, because I should also mention that the glucose Neo Genesis and the glycogen analysis process requires cortisol. And we know that cortisol is a stress hormone. So I was using that stress hormone to try and pick myself up and to also get that glucose that my body needed. And so fatigue, big warning sign, thyroid issues and your thyroid needs carbohydrates to release that insulin pull the conversion of people your inactive thyroid to T three your active thyroid. And something if you want to look more into this Anthony Kolko has written a big, big, big long post on carbs and thyroid. So it’s it’s too much for us to going to get here. But please know that carbs are important for your thyroid. And, and then the final big thing that I would suggest looking out for would be and changes in bowel movements. In a not positive direction. So this could be constipation, from say, like a fighter, or it could be diarrhea from inability to tolerate the manifests you having

Natalie K. Douglas 9:20
Yeah, good ones. Yeah, I think those like you pretty much covered off all of them. And the only one I would add would be difficulty sleeping, as well, which which can definitely happen. So I think they’re all definitely I like I he when you mentioned a lot of those, as you said, Kate, with both experience going really low carb and like you mine worked for a period of time, and I felt amazing. And then it just didn’t work. And I was too stubborn. I was like, no, it has to work because it worked in the past. But if it’s if something’s not working, then it’s not working. And you need to change direction. And those are all very significant warning signs. And I think it’s important to listen to that act on it. And we’ll give you some tips in terms of actually doing that. So, look, let’s say that you’ve accepted that, hey, you fit into that camp that there that maybe low carb isn’t quite working for you, as well as it once did. And you’re experiencing some of those signs or symptoms that we just mentioned, then we want to start to reintroduce carbs. But when you do start to reintroduce carbohydrates, when you’ve been on a very low carbohydrate diet, a few things can happen. So one thing that can happen is that you might experience a little bit of bloating. And sometimes, that’s because of a kind of slight down regulation of the digestive enzymes that break down carbohydrates, therefore, kind of creating a more difficult to digest environment and sometimes resulting in a little bit of bloating, sometimes it can be because you are reintroducing more fiber or prebiotic foods and the bacteria that you do have in your gut can stop to feed off that win. And that can temporarily again create a little bit of transient bloating. And the other thing that often happens is that what people kind of mistake, I guess a little bit of water retention for bloating. So carbohydrates hold water. And some people initially will retain more water when they first add carbohydrates back in. And it’s very easy to mistake, a little bit of water retention for bloating, because you do you will feel a little bit different in your clothes and in your body. But it should pass as well. The other thing that can happen is if you are someone who’s weighing yourself regularly, which we wouldn’t advise, but a lot of people do do it. So I thought I’d mention it is that you will likely see some weight gain on the scales. And again, that’s going back to the fact that carbohydrates hold water, the more water you’re holding, the more you’re going to appeal like heavier on the scales. So I wouldn’t take any notice of that number because it is just a sign of, Hey, I’m holding more water at the moment. But it is just something to be aware of and not to freak out about it’s not fat gain, it’s just that you’re holding more water. And probably the last thing that that can happen is you may experience some kind of blood sugar dips and highs. So if that’s happening, usually, but your body will adjust. But if it hasn’t adjusted, then I’d say that there is something more going on than just a transient kind of period that you’re going through. So given those kind of signs, they’re all quite normal, but they should pass you know, kind of within the month, or at least by two months, that should be all those should be completely gone. But in terms of actually reintroducing carbohydrates and going through that person, there are definitely some tips or strategies that you can use to step through step yourself through that process and minimize some of those symptoms. So Kate, do you when you’re getting someone to reintroduce carbohydrates to their diet going from coming from a really low carbohydrate diet? Are there any kind of tips or strategies that you mentioned to people to help them with that transition?

Kate Callaghan 13:25
Yeah, definitely. I would suggest number one, start slowly. So if you being low carb, I would advise going to a high carb diet in one day. And I would even start as small as you know, a quarter cup of carbs per meal depending on how low carb you were before. So it’s all relative to how low carb you personally were. But gradually gradually increasing slowly, and chewing your food as well. So chew chew chew your food really well when we chew our food. And we really think saliva and when we release saliva we release more of the enzyme analyze and analyze is required to break down at starches to complex complex starches and complex carbohydrates. So true to chew food help to help that digestion and choose whole food carbs that are easy to digest and that cooked well so things like sweet potato that’s being roasted, even potato that’s being roasted and passing it and even less dense sources of carbs and maybe and pumpkin beetroot carrot again depending on how long have you uh, I’m slowly reintroducing easy to digest fruits to chew, chew. And then you can try some gluten free grains after that if you wanted to. So things like Kamala after you soaked it overnight and rinsed it to improve their and adjustability of it. For some reason, I don’t know about that yet, but I’ve tested this theory with clients as well. White Kamala soaked in rinsed he’s absolutely fine. black and red Kamala soaked and rinsed is not it’ll always end up in my poo.

Natalie K. Douglas 15:15
Yeah, that’s interesting, actually, fine. Sorry, I haven’t had that experience. But a lot of people I find get quite bloated or uncomfortable with Qianlong in general, like whereas the other grains like buckwheat, rice, oats, they’re, they’re fine. I find that really interesting. And I actually have experienced the same, the same kind of thing, but I’ve never I’ve never really had the feedback of the different colors. But that’s interesting. I might try that theory and and see what happens.

Kate Callaghan 15:48
Good. Yeah, will always do. So a couple of other things that can help and with that introduction, if you do find that you are getting quiet bloated and quite quite a little tummy you can try some peppermint essential oil for those of you out there who are using oils you can try the digest Xin essential oil applied topically if dilute it with coconut oil first, then apply that topically to decrease the bloating. And I also like something called power Docker T. digestive upset. And that’s PAU is the first word. Second was D plus tree ACO.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:31
Yep. Awesome. And then I was just going to add that you could also use digestive enzymes if you are really having a hard time just temporarily, as well.

Kate Callaghan 16:43
Yeah, I’m just gonna say activated chakra. What do you thoughts on activated charcoal?

Natalie K. Douglas 16:46
Yeah, I think it can be really helpful, I would say, I probably get people to have it away from their meals. Like sometimes it can help with gas and bloating, kind of after you’ve eaten, but try to avoid people having it within meals straightaway because it can bind all the vitamins and minerals. But if you’re only doing it a few times, it’s okay. But generally what I’ll do is if people find that they’ve had dinner and then a couple of hours or an hour later, they’re still feeling a little bit bloated, then definitely a little bit of activated charcoal can help can help with that a little bit as well. But like you I also use digested by by Joe Tara sometimes to help with that. Or I use another supplement called I Berra gas by Florida, I think it is. And that can be really helpful as well. But it’s just trying a few different things and seeing what works for you, I think.

Kate Callaghan 17:40
Definitely Sorry, I was muted. That’s right, I thought you

Natalie K. Douglas 17:42
were. And then the only other thing I would add as well to that is to make sure that you’re not eating when you’re stressed or feeling super emotional, because again, it’s going to inhibit your ability to digest your food. And I would also say say that if your symptoms that you’re feeling are more related to the fact that you’re getting kind of like deep sea and blood sugar, after you’ve had your meals or between your meals, I would say make sure that you’re not eating carbohydrates alone. So make sure you’re having some fat and some protein, or at least one of those nutrients with that meal that you’re having the carbohydrates because that will help as well. And then the other thing that can be beneficial is is timing your carbohydrates. So popping them before and after your workouts is a good place to put them. If you’re having if the reason why you’re reintroducing carbohydrates is because you’ve had difficulty or you’re having difficulty with sleep, then definitely having some carbohydrates with dinner or as a pre bed snack is also a good idea because it can help with producing serotonin and melatonin and therefore helping you with staying asleep. And it can also help stabilize your blood sugar levels, sir the night because often what happens is, if people who don’t have great blood sugar control, and their their blood sugar is dipping throughout the night, your body will wake up because of that, because it needs to bring those levels those blood sugar levels back up. So it will spike cortisol. And that’s what causes you to wake up. So sometimes a pre bed snack of something that contains you know, slower digesting carbohydrates, so maybe some sweet potato, maybe a banana alongside some protein or some fat or both. So if you tolerate dairy, you could do some full fat yogurt, you could do some peanut butter, you could do another kind of natural seed, you could do some coconut yogurt, anything like that, that can also be really helpful to just carry you through the night and not cause that your body to wake up. So that’s another strategy that I often get people to do, but it’s all dependent and look, try all the different strategies yet and see what works best for you. And then I yes, if all of the above suggestions that you know you do all of those things and you’re still experiencing, you know, significant bloating or abdominal discomfort, then I would say that that’s probably an indication that there’s something underlying or there’s something more going on. So, I would be looking into things like CBOE so small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, I’d be looking at potential food intolerances or parasites. That’s kind of from a gut perspective. If you are still experiencing blood sugar, like kind of dips, then I would be looking into stress and cortisol, I’d maybe be looking at getting a bit of a picture of your blood sugar levels and your insulin levels through pathology, pathology testing. And then on the whole model front, Kate, if someone steals, experiencing infrequent periods to spot adding in more carbohydrates, or if they’re still experiencing light periods, or changes their what would you suggest that they look into?

Kate Callaghan 21:15
I would suggest they do my course.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:18
I would agree with that suggestion. So just for those who don’t know, what’s your course called?

Kate Callaghan 21:25
It called healing hope polemic, a malaria. And that that was a very well timed question.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:33
We didn’t find out everybody.

Kate Callaghan 21:35
And so eating more carbs, definitely. But if that’s not cutting it, and it generally won’t be the one thing if your periods are missing, or if they’re going scanty. And you’ll need to definitely look at stress management, you need to definitely look at total calories, so increasing total calories, and you’re eating more when you’re burning offset exercising less. And then you need to look at smart supplementation as well. And that really depends on why your periods have gone missing as to what I would suggest for for the missing periods. And but you need to kind of pay attention to all the things

Natalie K. Douglas 22:12
Yeah, definitely. And I’d say if you’re someone who had, you know, you started to produce more carbs, because you had you kind of had a stolen your weight loss journey, because a lot of people that can happen in terms of one reason why I might get someone to reintroduce more carbohydrates is if they’ve had a bit of a plateau on their weight loss journey. And if that’s you, and then you re introduce your cards, and you’re finding that either you’re still gaining weight, or you’re still not seeing results, then I would definitely be looking into doing a comprehensive thyroid panel, I’d also be looking into stress out also be looking into the amount of exercise you’re doing and even the type of exercise you’re doing, and definitely sleep as well. So it’s it’s really important that, you know, I think Australia, like a good way to approach these kinds of issues is to try the things that are the lowest hanging fruit first. So reintroducing carbohydrates is going to be a lot easier to do as an experiment, then going into spending thousands of dollars on testing straight up. So I think that what you’re wise to do is to try that experiment, first, try using all the tips and strategies we’ve given you. And I’d say in terms of like a timeline, I’d give it a couple of months for your body to adjust and for you to make a true assessment of whether it’s working or whether the issues are getting worse or persisting. And then I would say it’s time to do further investigation. And that’s when it can be really helpful to actually speak to a practitioner who can kind of look at your case, from the outside and develop a bit of a strategy for you in a plan going forward. Because sometimes it does involve testing, sometimes it might be a case of looking at other areas of your diet, sometimes it will involve just looking at sleep, sometimes it will be looking at stress exercises, lots of different factors that can that can change how we would advise someone to proceed. But I think we have a lot of control over our health. And there’s a lot of things you can do if you’re on a budget, before you go and spend my saying a practitioner, and I think re-introducing carbohydrates is one of those, one of those things. And as Kate said, Go slow, I think Kate you that you mentioned a quarter of a cup of carbohydrates, I think that’s a really great place to start. And in terms of how many carbohydrates you should introduce, that’s really going to depend on on your situation. So I would just reintroduce, like start to re introduce them and see it kind of keep trading up until you feel better. But I probably wouldn’t transition to a really high carbohydrate diet unless you had a specific need to do that in like in terms of you are really active, or you like an athlete of some kind. But I would just kind of aim, I guess is a minimum to add about a quarter of a cup to each of your main meals. And if you haven’t seen a change by then, then that’s when I would maybe maintain on that for a couple of months and then look at addressing the other factors that could be underlying causes to the issues that we’ve mentioned.

Kate Callaghan 25:36
Yeah, I’m on that I do, I would encourage people to if they feeling good, increase that amount. So I started on a quarter cup. But so for women with an aim area, and I like to aim for around one cup of cards with each main meal and half a cup with each neck,

Natalie K. Douglas 25:51
not as a guide. That’s good. That’s a good a good kind of aim as well. So I think, Kate, would you agree around like two months or so to to really notice a significant change? Or do you do it longer than that? or shorter than that? What’s your kind of opinion on on how long people should stick with something before they start to investigate underlying issues?

Kate Callaghan 26:15
And with period changes? I generally recommend at least three months. Yeah, because it takes 100 days for the egg to go from start to finish. Yeah, I think British population to make it a little journey. But otherwise, yeah, a couple of months. So if it’s non career related a couple of months if it’s period related at least three months. Yeah, yeah. That you can take a long time. Yeah, that’s true.

Natalie K. Douglas 26:41
Very true. All right. Well, hopefully, that’s kind of given everyone a bit of a roadmap to reintroducing carbohydrates and some strategies to to us along the way, I think that

the

biggest message we want to send is not to stick doing something if it’s not working. So make sure you’re like don’t feel reintroducing carbohydrates just because it’s, it’s the thing that changed your health in the first instance, it as Kate said, our diet should and will change over time. And it’s okay for that to happen. And I think that it’s, it’s worth experimenting, because time and time again, we say really low carbohydrate diets for females, in particular, not working long term. So short, short term can be really helpful. And as we mentioned, in certain conditions can also be really helpful. But I would say for the most part, most of my female clients do better on a moderate carbohydrate diet.

Kate Callaghan 27:43
Agreed, I talk a lot about this in my book as well. So if anyone wants to grab my book, holistic nutrition, eat well train smart and be kind to your body, I talk a lot about

Natalie K. Douglas 27:51
carbs, I feel like that would be a great Christmas present, or even like a new year’s resolution present. So every year to do that. And on that note, while we’re telling everyone about our resources, I also have my a book healing digestive discomfort. So if you find that you’re that person that, you know, you reintroduce some carbohydrates. And after kind of like two months or so you’re still experiencing all of those gut issues, then I would definitely recommend picking up that a book and having a read about what could be the issue for you. It will give you some guides into what signs and symptoms to look out for for specific conditions and where to go in terms of testing and some tips on on treatment as well. So I think between us, we’ve got the bases covered. But as we said, as well, if if you can afford to invest in seeing a practitioner that can also fast track that purchase for you, as well. So keep all of those tips in line. And if you do have any questions in relation to anything that we’ve mentioned today, or want us to expand on anything that we’ve discussed and feel free, too, right into us, Kate, did you want to just let everyone know about when the next HJ course may be running, when you do have a rough estimate in terms of a month that people can look out for?

Kate Callaghan 29:14
Yes, I’m hoping to run in February. And so I’ll be starting to put more information about how to get on the waiting list for that. And yeah, and it’ll be eight weeks from February. Excellent. Excellent. It was done in February, and it’ll be eight weeks long.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:31
We’ll we’ll keep an eye out for that. In the meantime, everyone, we hope you have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and we will talk to you guys in 2018 Oh my gosh, I can’t believe it’s 19 All right, Kate, was there anything you wanted to add before we wrap up?

Kate Callaghan 29:52
Just Merry Christmas.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:54
Whoo. All right. Well, I will speak to you in a couple of weeks. Have a lovely day.

Kate Callaghan 29:59
Bye.