#23 The Carbohydrate Debate - How Much, When & For Who?

The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast

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"I've found my clients generally get better health improvements with moderate or higher carbohydrate diets. I tweak my approach for each client, but having adequate carbohydrates is important for avoiding adrenal fatigue."

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SHOW NOTES

In Episode 23 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss how many carbs per day you need for optimal health and avoiding adrenal fatigue.

  • What are carbohydrates?
  • What parts of our body requires them?
  • Can we “make” them if we don’t eat them?
  • What is considered “low carb”, “moderate carb”, “high carb”?
  • The benefits of low carb, and people who do well off this approach
  • The downfalls of low carb and people who would be better of with a moderate-high carb intake
  • Do sources matter?
  • Good quality cabohydrate sources
  • Not so good carb sources
  • Is there a good/bad time to eat carbs?

Natalie K. Douglas 0:02
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. My name is Natalie Bourke, Holistic Dietitian and Nutritionist from HealthByWholeFoods.com.au and with me as always, I have Kate Callaghan, the pregnant Holistic Nutritionist on TheHolisticNutritionist.com. Kate, how are you going?

Kate Callaghan
Very very pregnant.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, my God, how exciting. Are you all prepared now? Last time we spoke you weren’t so prepared.

Kate Callaghan 0:28
Oh, look, I’m getting there.

Natalie K. Douglas
Define prepared.

Kate Callaghan
I’m probably still going to install a car seat. Maybe?

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, details. It’s all right.

Kate Callaghan
Small details but the clothes are all in the drawers. We’ve got nappies. I’ve got boobs.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:39
Oh, that’s good. Well, boobs is the most important thing. You need to be fed.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
And by it I mean. Oh, yeah. Hey, you haven’t named, you haven’t like revealed what you’re going to call it yet? Have you?

Kate Callaghan
No, no.

Natalie K. Douglas
And I’ll stop calling it now. Hey, you.

Kate Callaghan
No.

Natalie K. Douglas
It’s such a bad habit. I do it when…

Kate Callaghan 1:00
We haven’t really told anyone. Oh, we tell one person.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, how exciting. I can’t wait. I’m gonna stalk your Instagram like it’s no tomorrow and I’ll probably email you.

Kate Callaghan
I’m gonna say you know, you have my email.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
And we’re friends on Facebook these are the ways to contact me. Nat, how are you?

Natalie K. Douglas 1:20
Yeah, I’m good. I am very busy at the moment, actually. And I’m just realizing that it’s time to probably book myself some self-care, some time out soon. But you know, when you kind of look ahead, and you’re like, oh, wow, there’s no, there’s no space for that yet but I really need it. So I think I am going to find some time to head away for the weekend and I think with my partner in probably in September, that’s when it seemed like, just for something just for a bit of an escape, I think.

Kate Callaghan 1:53
Jealous, where are you going to go?

Natalie K. Douglas 1:54
Actually, I think we’re going to Tasmania because he’s brother is from there and he just built a house and he, my boyfriend wants to see his brother’s house. So I’m like, Okay, cool. As long as we can eat nice food and go for lots of walks and I’m happy.

Kate Callaghan
Nice.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes.

Kate Callaghan 2:09
I’ve never been to Tasmania but I’ve heard it’s beautiful.

Natalie K. Douglas 2:12
Yeah, I haven’t been either. So that’ll be exciting. And then next year, we’re coming to visit you.

Kate Callaghan
Whoo-hoo.

Natalie K. Douglas
And I’m pretty excited about that. I just want to do, I just want to stay in Queenstown and do all of the adventure things. But we kind of have to see more than just one place. So I think we’re going to hire a camper van and just do it that way.

Kate Callaghan
Yes, a very good idea.

Natalie K. Douglas
Indeed. Anyway, I’m sure no one really cares about my life that much. So what we’re actually going to talk about today is all about carbohydrates. And I think it’s a bit of a hot topic, still, I think that everyone gets very confused about whether they should be low carb, high carb, moderate carb, no carb, all these kind of different things. And it’s easy to get swept up in either side of the argument because there are arguments for both sides, and I think today our kind of aim is to, firstly, just go through, you know, what a carbohydrate is. And you know, how they kind of, I guess what, what parts of your body use them. And also, we want to talk about when would be a good idea to go low carb versus when it would be a better idea to maybe stick around the moderate or even higher carb and the things. So hopefully, we can answer quite a number of questions that everyone has. I’m trying to just put together a few little topics that we will go through or questions we will address so that we cover off everything and these are questions that we both get from our clients all of the time. So we know that there is more than just us that want them answered. So I think we should probably start off with just telling people. Kate, like what is a carbohydrate? And what kind of parts of your, or what part of your body need them or require them?

Kate Callaghan 4:04
Sure. So carbohydrates, I think we often think of carbs, as you know, bread, pasta, rice, cereal, the base of the food pyramid. Sorry. Wow.

Natalie K. Douglas 4:16
All good.

Kate Callaghan 4:24
Sorry.

Natalie K. Douglas
We know that you’re popular.

Kate Callaghan
The base of the food pyramid we often think of as carbohydrates. But we can actually find carbohydrate-containing foods all over the place. So yes, they’re in all of your grain-based foods in all of your sugar, refined sugar. They’re in legumes and beans, lentils, chickpeas, they’re also in vegetables, so mostly in starchy veggies. So things like sweet potato, potato, parsnips, and to a lesser degree, pumpkin, beetroot, carrots, swede, they’re also in fruit. And you can also find carbohydrates in dairy products as well, mostly in milk, not not as much in yogurt, and really none in cheese, other veggies and non-starchy veggies like the greens. People often refer to these as counting carbs. I’m like, no, no, no, there’s no carbs in there. Don’t. No. I don’t know what you think about that.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, I agree.

Kate Callaghan
That I think that’s silly. If you’re counting, you know, the carbs in broccoli, that’s just.

Natalie K. Douglas 5:25
Yeah, no, they’re not for you, they’re for your bacteria.

Kate Callaghan 5:27
Exactly, exactly. So that’s why we kind of find out carbohydrates in those sorts of foods. Our body, what parts of our body require them, a lot of our body requires them.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes.

Kate Callaghan
So our brain thrives on glucose. And yes, I can hear you people screaming at us right now. Going…

Natalie K. Douglas 5:51
Where are the ketones? Yeah. In exactly that voice in case, anyone was wondering.

Kate Callaghan 5:55
Yes, your brain can work on ketones as well. And we’ll talk about that a little bit later when we talk about when you might want to go down that path of using ketones for fuel but your brain really doesn’t have a preference for glucose. And glucose is the broken down form of your carbohydrates, the few a few other systems in our body that really love carbs, our thyroid really loves carbohydrates. So when we eat carbohydrates, we release the hormone insulin, and insulin helps to tell the thyroid that all is well, all is safe, metabolism is good to go ahead, and it helps with the conversion of the inactive form of thyroid hormone to the active form of thyroid hormones. So the T4 to T3 conversion, which is what we really want going on and I have seen all over the place, including in myself, a down-regulation of thyroid function when following a low carbohydrate diet, unnecessarily.

Natalie K. Douglas
Amazing. Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah. And then our gut loves carbs as well. For the most part, if you’ve got any gut issues, it’s probably not going to like carbs, but our gut bacteria they like to eat carbohydrates. So going on a low carb diet, again, can create gut dysfunction.

Natalie K. Douglas 7:13
Yeah, and I think we’ll, we’ll address that, again, as you said, when we go when we speak about when it would be applicable to follow low carb, this wouldn’t be applicable to go more moderate to higher carb, but I think that’s a good summary of kind of where, you know, they’re mostly used in our body. I think before we continue, though, I’d like to give a bit of an insight into what I or what we both consider low carb, moderate carb, high carb, because people are probably like, Oh, well, you know what, you know, what is that in grams kind of thing. And to be honest, there isn’t any specific definition. However, I’ve kind of come up with what I work with NKE can share what you generally uses, your parameters as well. But basically, I would say that less than about 75 grams or so of carbohydrates. I’d consider to be low carb, between kind of 75 to 150 grams. I’d probably say it’s more moderate carbohydrate. And then 150 grams plus is what I would consider to be higher carbohydrate but notice I said higher, not high, because I still don’t think that kind of that 150 grams to 200 grams of carbs is high by any means. It’s just that in the context of a Whole Foods type approach, it’s generally how I view it or how I speak to clients about it. I do actually have client on over 300 grams of carbs and that may be high for some people, but most of the clients that are on 300 grams plus of carbohydrates, CrossFiters or some shade of it. So it’s completely appropriate, or they just might be bigger humans. So they’re kind of the ballpark figures I used to define, you know, low carb, moderate carb, high carb when I’m speaking about it. Kate, are yours similar, or do you have a few differences with how you define it?

Kate Callaghan 9:10
No, I’m pretty much on par with you with those levels. Yeah, I generally say less than 100 grams, I would consider low carb especially for females.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Kate Callaghan
And then below, you know, 30 to 40 grams of carbs are putting the more so ketogenic diet.

Natalie K. Douglas 9:27
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, that’s good. So everyone has a bit of a definition, a bit of an understanding about what we’re talking about now. When we will start to talk about when low carb would be beneficial and when low carb might not be beneficial. So let’s start with maybe when low carb is a good idea. So Kate, in what situations, would you, would you prescribe a low carb diet, you know, for a therapeutic reason?

Kate Callaghan 9:54
Okay, so there are a few that the research shows that it can be really, really beneficial. And again, as you just said, Nat, it’s a therapeutic diet. So the therapy reasons, which means short term, so it shouldn’t be lasting a lifetime. I don’t think you, most people, I don’t think should be going on a long term ketogenic diet. So specific conditions that have been shown by the science to be benefited by following a ketogenic style diet so, low, low, low, low, low, low carb, pretty much no carbs, would be some forms of cancer, epilepsy, Alzheimer’s disease, cystic fibrosis, some obesity, but then again, I think you need to be careful with that as well so you’re not messing with the thyroid too much, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and diabetes.

Natalie K. Douglas
Nice.

Kate Callaghan
Would you add anything to that?

Natalie K. Douglas 10:50
No, I think that completely kind of covers it all. So yeah, I think it’s really important, as Kate said, to realize that most of those are therapeutic interventions to get the condition under control. You know, there may be some circumstances that the continued or that they transform more into us are kind of like cyclical, ketogenic or low carb diet. But generally, I’d completely agree with that, at least and I really wouldn’t add too many others. I may try a lower carb approach with PCOS temporarily, but generally, I would probably, it would depend on what’s driving the PCOS. So if it was a insulin-resistant type PCOS, I may try that intervention. But as we’ve kind of emphasized, it would be an intervention and it wouldn’t be a completely long term thing and it’s going to be assessed on an individual basis and keeping an eye on things like thyroid function would be really important during that time as well. I think.

Kate Callaghan 11:56
Can I, sorry, can I add something to that?

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes, yes, you can.

Kate Callaghan
Because I agree with you a lot regarding the polycystic ovary syndrome and I also find and I don’t know if you find it as well, Nat, that polycystic ovarian syndrome is often misdiagnosed. Well, it’s often in many cases that I see it’s hypothalamic amenorrhea misdiagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome. So someone will come to me and I was diagnosed with PCOS but I didn’t have PCOS, I had HA. People come to me and say, I’ve been diagnosed with PCOS and then when I look at how they got diagnosed, they’ll often only be diagnosed by an ultrasound scan. So polycystic like ovaries on an ultrasound scan. The issue with that is when you have HA, you can also have polycystic like ovaries. So for PCOS to be confirmed, you also, I think we’ve done a podcast on PCOS, haven’t we?

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes, we did.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, so have a look at that podcast, but you also need those high androgen levels and often there is an insulin resistance issue involved. And so it’s really important to get that because if you have HA and you treat it as you know, insulin-resistant PCOS, then you’re going to do more harm than good.

Natalie K. Douglas 13:08
Yeah, that’s a really good point. So I definitely, yeah, I would make sure that the diagnosis is, is accurate, for sure. So that’s a good, thank you for raising that. I think that that’s really important. Now, I think what we would, what we’ll go on to next is maybe a bit further into the downfalls of low carb, so we’ve kind of touched on a few of them already, but we will go over them again. So there are quite a few and I’ll just mention the ones that I guess are most common, commonly a problem. So I might start by mentioning pregnancy, because it’s on my mind since you could literally go into labor right now.

Kate Callaghan
I really could.

Natalie K. Douglas
I know and it’s really exciting. Anyway. So basically, during pregnancy, you don’t want to be going to low carb because having adequate carbs in pregnancy is important for the fetal brain development and growth. And it’s also practically important because generally speaking, you know, we’re not trying to get a really high protein, a super high protein diet in pregnancy because it’s not appropriate. And if we’re, you know, not having heaves of protein, then you need to replace it with something. So obviously, fats in there and should be in there at a very, you know, significant level and, and be having lots of healthy fats. But that’s not just going to cut it alone, you do need those, those carbohydrates in there as well. So that’s one important consideration. And then moving on from that, as, as Kate mentioned, or touched on around HA and fertility. So if you, like if you don’t have your period, so if you’ve got hypothalamic amenorrhea it’s absolutely critical that you are convincing your body that it is safe, and that it is safe to reproduce, and that it’s not in survival mode, and part of doing, part of making that happen is eating up adequate carbohydrates. So, Kate, I don’t know, if you have a rough number that you aim for in terms of grams of carbohydrates with your HA girls, do you have anything that you roughly shoot for? Is it more on an individual basis?

Kate Callaghan 15:18
I usually say a minimum of 150 grams.

Natalie K. Douglas 15:21
Yeah, awesome. I’d agree with that. So that’s a good ballpark figure to work with. If you have HA and you’re trying to address it, then that would be one thing to start with. Likewise, if you’ve got any kind of adrenal fatigue, and I’m air quoting there, so HPA axis dysregulation, adrenal fatigue, whatever you want to call it. But you know, if you’re run down, you’re going through a very stressful period, that kind of thing, then again, placing additional stress on your body is not a good idea. So stress causes fluctuations in both your cortisol and blood sugar levels. And what tends to happen is when blood sugar drops, the adrenals will release things like cortisol and epinephrine, which actually send a signal to your body that it needs to get glucose into your system fast. So when that happens, the body actually responds by breaking down glycogen and making new glucose from protein and fat through gluconeogenesis, which is just a fancy name for making glucose basically. So that process is a bit of like an emergency signal to the HPA axis. So that is obviously going to worsen the quote-unquote, adrenal fatigue that is already going on if that’s going on for you. So we want to avoid that situation. So it’s really important that you do have adequate carbohydrates. And on that note, you also avoid fasting for long periods of time. But we can talk about that another time. The next one that I would mention that Kate already mentioned, but I just want to emphasize is if you’ve got an underactive thyroid, or if you want to avoid having an underactive thyroid, so Kate mentioned that you do actually need insulin, to help with the conversion of, or to help in the production of thyroid hormones of active thyroid hormones. So that’s really important. And I would, I would say, again, I generally, if someone’s got a low thyroid, I will get them to gradually get their carbohydrates up to around 150 grams a day. You know, if they’re, if there’s particularly active, I might do more than that, I do change it based on the individual but I would say that if you’ve got an underactive thyroid, having less than 100 grams of carbohydrates is not going to be helping that situation. So that’s something else to keep in mind. And then gut health, which Kate already mentioned, is important. And I won’t go into that, because we did already chat about why that’s important. And then the final one I would, I would touch on would be to support athletic performance. So whether that be an elite athlete, a weekend warrior, or whatever the saying is for someone just exercising like a normal human is, basically if you’re active, it’s going to require you to eat more carbs, so particularly the more glycolytic types of exercise, so things like CrossFit or flavors of CrossFit, heavy weight lifting, or any kind of high-intensity interval training. So they’re the kind of main times I would say do not go low carb. Kate, Can you think of any other ones that I haven’t mentioned?

Kate Callaghan 18:35
I think if you have any sleep issues.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, good one.

Kate Callaghan
You want to be mindful of carbohydrate intake, too little carbohydrate intake, especially in your dinner meal, controversial, can affect the production of melatonin.

Natalie K. Douglas 18:52
Yep. Awesome. So just touching on sources of carbohydrates. So does where we get our carbohydrates really matter and what are your favorite sources of carbohydrates?

Kate Callaghan 19:06
I would say yes, it does matter. I always like to encourage whole food forms of carbohydrates. So the ones we mentioned at the start, some more of your starchy veggies, your fresh fruit, gluten-free grains like quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth, things like that, the fancy grains.

Natalie K. Douglas
White rice.

Kate Callaghan
White rice, yep, it can be an easy one to, to have, especially. Sorry got a hiccup then.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Especially with gut issues. Look, my stomach is small and my belly is big, there’s a big baby there but my stomach is small. So I have to be a very small meal. So sorry for random noises.

Natalie K. Douglas 19:45
Totally fine with it. I just thought we just got some background noise. It’s so good.

Kate Callaghan
You don’t know the least of it.

Natalie K. Douglas
We’ll call it like a baby bass.

Kate Callaghan 19:50
Oh my god. It’s terrible things going on every day here. Anyway, so the reason why I recommend those whole food forms is because they can package up with carbohydrates. But they also can package up with fiber and vitamins and minerals, and antioxidants, and all these are the wonderful things that our body needs to function optimally. Whereas if you have more of those refined carbohydrates and you know, sugar, cakes, biscuits, lollies, you’re not going to get the nutrients packaged up, you’re going to potentially be depleting the nutrients by having so much sugar and could be making issues worse in regards to blood sugar regulation, which could throw everything else off. That’s not to say never have sugar. I’m not in that camp now of, God never touch it. Otherwise, you’re really good person. You’re a terrible person, if you eat sugar, you really not. I think you can have a little bit of sugar and still be healthy. Even if you know if you put a teaspoon of sugar in a coffee a day and the rest of your diet was Whole Foods. I know some people are like gasping now. I think that’s not, she’s going off the rails.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:04
It’s all right, everyone, she’s pregnant. It’s just baby brain.

Kate Callaghan 21:09
I actually don’t think it’s that.

Natalie K. Douglas
I agree.

Kate Callaghan
Terrible if you don’t have any blood sugar regulation issues if you don’t have any insulin issues. If you don’t have any, say Candida issues. I don’t, I think there’s worse things that you could be having than a little bit of sugar in something.

Natalie K. Douglas 21:25
Yep.

Kate Callaghan 21:27
Yeah, I think the stress of not having it in or beating yourself up. If you do have it is going to be worse for you than having that a little bit and keeping most of your diet whole-food-based?

Natalie K. Douglas 21:38
Yep. I agree. And I would agree with all of those carbohydrate sources. And I do agree also that it does matter. I really yeah. I think that it’s important to continue to eat whole foods as much as you can. And as Kate said, you know, it doesn’t mean never having a treat that has honey in it or sugar in it or something like that. It’s we’re talking about, in general, what should your diet look like most of the time. The last thing I actually want to touch on is the timing of carbohydrates. And maybe when it is a good time to eat carbohydrates that is, that can be optimal for I guess making them utilized and getting the most benefits out of them. So one that you touched on just before was eating carbohydrates at night. And I actually think that the best time to eat your carbohydrates is at night with your best friend free bourbon in your man trackies. I’m totally just kidding but we’ll kind of. I do think that having them at night is a good idea. I don’t think you need to be with your best friend bra-less or wearing the opposite sex’s clothing, it will still have the benefit, I promise. But the reason for this is because carbohydrates help as Kate mentioned in the production of serotonin and melatonin. And Melatonin is that hormone that helps kind of set to your circadian rhythm and signals to you it’s time to sleep. So if you do have sleep issues, or even if you don’t have sleep issues, including a serve of carbohydrates at your dinner meal, is really beneficial. And that whole don’t eat carbs at night will make you fat thing is so whenever, like, old, it’s not.

Kate Callaghan 23:19
But you’re not gonna be burning them off, Nat.

Natalie K. Douglas 23:22
You still burnt your energy when you sleep that’s my results.

Kate Callaghan 23:26
But you need to be running around

Natalie K. Douglas 23:28
My god, you have to do some sleep jogging.

Kate Callaghan 23:30
You need to earn your carbs.

Natalie K. Douglas 23:35
Clearly, we don’t have an earning your carbs mentality. So I think that that’s one of the key times. Kate, is there. Any other key times you’d say, for that people should take particular advantage of in relation to carbohydrate timing?

Kate Callaghan 23:51
Yeah, so again, it depends on what’s going on. I would say if you have hypothalamic amenorrhea, if you have adrenal fatigue, or an underactive thyroid, all the time regular carbs.

Natalie K. Douglas
All of the time, all of the carbs.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, all of the carbs, all of the time, regular meals, you know, every few hours. With the carbs, enjoy. If you have some of the polycystic ovarian syndrome, diabetes, or other insulin resistance issues, then I would time most of your carbohydrate intake around your workouts or post-workout, when the glucose from the carbohydrate actually gets into your cells via our process called non-insulin mediated glucose transport. So you’re not actually using insulin to shuttle that glucose into your cells and potentially contributing to further insulin issues.

Natalie K. Douglas 24:39
Awesome. Well, I think that. Yeah, they’re probably the main ones that I would say as well. So it as you can kind of get from these, there are some general recommendations, but a lot of the time it depends. So it’s really important to remember that you are an individual and your circumstances may be different from, you know, the person that works out next to you or the person who sits next to you at work or, you know, your family members, or, you know, your needs or your requirements might actually be different to what they were six months ago, or 12 months ago, or, you know, things change, and you need to be open to changing and I would say if, if something’s not working for you, then don’t continue to do the same thing. So if you’ve got an underactive thyroid, and you’re struggling to lose weight, and you’ve been trying to use a low carbohydrate diet to make that happen, and it’s not working, then don’t continue to do the same thing. If you’re too nervous to just increase your carbohydrates on your own, then get in contact with, you know, a nutritionist, or dietitian, or healthcare practitioner that can help you, I guess, you know, set a goal for what to aim for. And try something different because, you know, if nothing changes, nothing changes. And it’s easy to get caught up in a bit of a fearful mentality around carbohydrates. And it’s equally it’s easy to get caught up into the opposite and start going too far in the opposite direction. So balance is key and individuality is key when it comes to carbohydrates I feel. Kate, is there anything you would add to this whole discussion around carbohydrates before we wrap up?

Kate Callaghan 26:22
No, I think you summed up pretty well, I do go over a lot of this stuff in my book as well. So if anyone wants to check that out, Holistic Nutrition: Eat Well, Train Smart and Be Kind to Your Body. We talk about specific levels for specific conditions and why we need carbohydrates as well. So that could be of interest if you’re into the whole carb conversation. I’ve spoken a bit about it on my blog as well. But yeah, definitely individuality. And also know that what’s right for you now or what was right for you five years ago, that can change. And so you know, I followed a low carb diet, and it worked for all over five minutes. No, it actually, it actually worked. Well, it seems to be working for a little while, I felt good for a while until everything just shoots itself.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:09
And that’s often what happens, often people will have a bit of a honeymoon period with low carb, and then it’ll and it works so well. And then it stops working. And because you’re so hung up on the fact that it works so well. You kind of corn yourself into thinking it can’t possibly be not the right thing for you anymore. So if you’re in that trap, please get out of it. Because, you know, there’s there are other ways to still have a healthy diet while carbs are in there. So that’s something I’d like to emphasize. Because yes, I’ve had that same experience as well.

Kate Callaghan 27:42
Yes. If anyone tells you low carb for all, it’s the only way to go run the other way.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:47
Yeah, I agree. If anyone tells you anything, one approach is the way to go for everyone then run the other way.

Kate Callaghan
Yes.

Natalie K. Douglas
Because it’s, I think that it’s, Yeah, not, not such a, not such a smart recommendation.

Kate Callaghan
No.

Natalie K. Douglas
Anyway, that’s all from us today. So we will post up the links to some of the articles we’ve both written around carbohydrates if you want to read further. And please pass this on to any of your friends that you think would need to know about carbohydrates or are interested in the conversation around carbs. If you guys have any questions around anything that we discussed, feel free to contact us or if you have topics, suggestions for an upcoming podcast, please let us know as well. Kate, anything else to add?

Kate Callaghan 28:34
No, I will probably be having some time off now maybe.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes, she will. That might be Kate’s last podcast for a few months while she…

Kate Callaghan
Well, maybe not for a few months. I might come back…

Natalie K. Douglas 28:46
A few weeks? We’ll just let her to have the baby and then she’ll be back on.

Kate Callaghan
We’ll see. We’ll see how things are going.

Natalie K. Douglas
We’ll keep you posted guys. All right. Kate, well, best wishes and we will hear from you very soon.

Kate Callaghan
Thanks, Nat.

Natalie K. Douglas
Bye.

Kate Callaghan
Bye.

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The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast - with Natalie K. Douglas and Kate Callaghan

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Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas | Thyroid Healer

Natalie K. Douglas shows women with Thyroid problems how to heal themselves in less than 30 minutes a day. Guaranteed.

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Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan | The Holistic Nutritionist

Kate Callaghan is a Holistic Nutritionist, Personal Trainer and Lifestyle Coach who specializes in women's hormone healing.

She recognizes that there is no “one size fits all” diet or “magic bullet” which is going to cure all illnesses.

She focuses on having a thorough understanding of your personal goals, needs, likes/dislikes, support networks and lifestyle in order to create a food and lifestyle approach that suits YOU.

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puppies are fun! wacky thyroids aren't 😭

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