In Episode 16 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss low estrogen deficiency treatment options and Hypothalamic Amenorrhea (HA).

• Benefits of estrogen
• Symptoms of estrogen deficiency
• Causes of estrogen deficiency
• Nutrition for optimising estrogen balance with Hypothalamic Amenorrhea (HA)
• Sleep, stress and exercise recommendations for treating low estrogen HA
• Beneficial supplements for boosting estrogen when it is low

• Purchase/read about doTerra Essential Oils from Nat or Kate

Natalie K. Douglas 0:01
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. My name is Natalie Bourke, Holistic Dietitian and Nutritionist from HealthByWholeFoods.com.au and with me as always, I have Kate Callaghan, the Holistic Nutritionist from TheHolisticNutritionist.com. Kate, how are you going?

Kate Callaghan 0:19
I am good. A little tired with my daughter waking up at 4:30 because of Daylight Savings, but otherwise I am well.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:26
It’s crazy. Daylight Savings always confuses me and I know it shouldn’t as a person who’s been living on the earth for a long time with Daylight Savings, but every time I’m like, did I get an hour, or lose an hour. Did I like, what’s happening? Where’s my clock going? Which clock’s right? I don’t like it.

Kate Callaghan 0:43
If you don’t have children, I think it’s good because you get technically get an extra hour sleep this time because the clock goes back. So you’d get an extra hour sleep. Technically, you don’t have a small child going up, mommy up. No, no.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:01
Sorry. It’s not funny at all. It’s really horrible.

Kate Callaghan 1:04
It is.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:07
Well, at least we have our lavender essential oils to help us get a little bit better sleep.

Kate Callaghan 1:13
Exactly. Oh, it’s working for me. She’s getting a deep sleep. Aaron, my husband, he’s like, I don’t know if she should use the essential oils anymore on Olivia. I think she’s getting to good at sleep. She’s sleeping too well, and then she’s waking up too early because she’s too rested.

Natalie K. Douglas
Good theory.

Kate Callaghan
We should go and poke her through the night, because she has a bit of a rubbish sleep and then sleeps in later. That’s his theory.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:38
Yeah, right. Maybe, maybe don’t give that on the go just yet.

Kate Callaghan
No. I don’t touch her.

Natalie K. Douglas
So, how are you applying the oils or are you using them on yourself and on Olivia?

Kate Callaghan 1:51
Yep, so I have created two little roller bottles. With so I combined the lavender piece which is a combination of lavender, obviously, lavender, marjoram, Roman chamomile, ylang ylang. I’ll say that probably one day. Hawaiian sandalwood and vanilla. So I dilute that in fractionated coconut oil. I have one roller bottle for me. And that’s for 2% dilution and a 1% dilution for Olivia because you need to dilute it more for little humans, so just rubbing that on her feet and she’s gotten the hang of it. Now she’s like, massage. Oh my God, you’re such a Little Princess.

Natalie K. Douglas
Up, mommy.

Kate Callaghan
Massage. Oh, God.

Natalie K. Douglas 2:34
Oh, that’s funny. Well, I don’t have any children. But I do have, have had a lot of trouble with my sleep in the past. And the lavender has been really helpful for me. So I actually diffuse it. I diffuse it in my lounge room like probably an hour or so before I’m going to bed just to get it all up in my grill and then. And then at about, at about half an hour before I’m actually going into my bedroom. I’ll go and put the diffuser in there and let it all circulate and work its magic but my partner was laughing at me because obviously the point of a diffuser is that diffuses out there and into the whole room. But like he came home from the gym and I was sitting there in the lounge room like with my head over the diffuser. He’s like, what are you doing? And am like, I just don’t want to lose any of the benefits.

Kate Callaghan 3:29
You think it was like steaming up your nostrils or something.

Natalie K. Douglas 3:35
Yeah. It looks like a bit of like, I don’t know. Just do it. But that’s right. My family’s used to this.

Kate Callaghan 3:40
Oh, yeah. Nice. Loving them. You’re fantastic.

Natalie K. Douglas 3:43
Excellent. All right. Well, on a different note, we are taking a podcast question today and we’re going to turn it into a complete podcast because we, as usual have quite a lot to say about everything. So, before we get started, though, I will read our disclaimer. So the advice given in this podcast is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from your primary healthcare physician. The facts and information offered are based on a combination of scientific evidence, clinical practice experience, and personal experience. So with that little thing in place, I’m going to read out the podcast question first. So I won’t say the person’s name just in case they didn’t want to be named but the person wrote, learning so much and love the ability to take my health into my own hands. Not sure if you take podcast request but thought it was at least worth an email, would love to hear a podcast on post-pill hypothalamic amenorrhea with low estrogen levels, every blog post and article I come across it’s always about estrogen dominance. But it’s difficult to find anything on low hormone levels that aren’t strong enough to produce a period. I have had HA now for three years, and how it has been put down to low estrogen by my endocrinologist would be grateful for any information, or point me in the direction of any resources that can help me get my health back on track. So what we’re going to do is first have a bit of a chat about the benefits of estrogen and some of the symptoms of estrogen deficiency, as well as the causes of the estrogen deficiency just so that other people listening to the podcast can get a bit of context. And also it might be a bit more widely applicable to people who are listening. So estrogen is really important in bone health, in libido, in insulin sensitivity, in neurotransmitter health, such as promoting serotonin production, which is commonly referred to as your feel-good hormone, and it does also help with melatonin production and sleep and lovely things like that, that we really, really need. Clearly, students are following our discussion on lack of sleep. So the listener who wrote in mentioned she was on the pill previously, which I suspect was potentially masking, either and could be masking an underlying estrogen deficiency. But obviously, we don’t know that for sure, and would need to more context to that case, but it’s one possible part to the puzzle. So just as a reminder, for anyone who hasn’t listened to our podcast on the pill, and what it does to your hormones in the past, it basically shuts down your own hormonal production switches off ovulation. So this means that the type of estrogen that is super beneficial in the right amounts called estradiol is no longer produced in the body in adequate amounts, adequate amounts, if at all, and is replaced with an estrogen called ethinylestradiol, which is similar to estradiol but not identical. And ethinylestradiol, which is the one that’s in the pill is not as beneficial as they should also. It’s not going to have those strong benefits that I just mentioned. So some symptoms of estrogen deficiency include fatigue, weight gain, depression or low mood, difficulty sleeping, hair loss, dry skin, recurrent bladder infections, and vaginal dryness. And I probably say that vaginal dryness is probably a really good standout symptom because a lot of the other symptoms overlap with numerous other hormonal imbalances in the body, but having a dried up vagina which is as unpleasant as it sounds.

Kate Callaghan 7:40
Especially when you put it like that Nat.

Natalie K. Douglas 7:43
I actually had this when I, when I had HA as well, so I feel your pain people. Anyway, so, but I also had no sex drive whatsoever. So that’s one, anyway,

Kate Callaghan 7:57
You can laugh about these things now.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, we can now.

Kate Callaghan
But there are some quite serious.

Natalie K. Douglas 8:00
Yes, and I did not enjoy having a dried up vagina back then. Anyways, so now the most common causes of estrogen deficiency are menopause, not ovulating, which could be due to an underlying cause such as PCOS, smoking, over-exercising, low body fat, too much stress, untreated gluten sensitivity or undiagnosed celiac disease, consuming too much soy, following a vegetarian diet that’s not supplying adequate nutrients such as zinc and I’d probably say also throw in there a vegan diet as well, if you’re not getting adequate amounts of important nutrients such as zinc and B vitamins. So Kate, let’s assume that the radar is not going through menopause, but has got estrogen deficiency, how would you advise starting to address this through, you know, diet or lifestyle or supplementation?

Kate Callaghan 8:58
Okay. Did we also say that the risks of estrogen deficiency about osteoporosis?

Natalie K. Douglas 9:04
We did not, but you can definitely rattle in some of those.

Kate Callaghan 9:08
Sorry, I was listening but you know 4:30 AM

Natalie K. Douglas 9:12
That’s okay, that’s alright.

Kate Callaghan 9:14
My brain is working, it is. I promise. So, a couple of the long term consequences of low estrogen. I mean, we often associated with fertility and you know, all of those lovely things that you said Nat, you know, the opposite of what you might experience with estrogen deficiency, libido and serotonin and sleeping well, but the long term negative side effects of inadequate estrogen, the biggest one is osteoporosis. So your bones need adequate estrogen, for their metabolism to prevent excess resumption of bone and help with the building of the bone. Estrogen deficiency can also increase your risk of heart disease, increases your risk of immune-related issues and long term memory loss, just to name a few. So it’s really not a pretty situation. It’s not just fertility, okay. So I think often with and when we don’t have a period, and when we have low estrogen, we’re like, oh, they’re my sex hormones. It’s only related to fertility. It doesn’t really matter. Yeah, it really does matter. If you don’t want to be in a wheelchair by the time you’re 40, then it does matter. You might think I’m being a drama queen. But I have seen women in their 30s who don’t have sufficient estrogen have lost their period and they have osteoporosis or and or osteopenia and have fractured their hip and the neck of their femur. And if you, if you don’t know anatomy, Google this, the neck of your femur is a pretty sturdy bone, it’s like pretty solid it has to hold up your whole body pretty much. So to snap that is significant.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
So that’s a fair bit of deterioration.

Natalie K. Douglas 10:56
And I will, yeah, I will add like, I, I when I had hypothalamic, by the time I kind of did something about my hypothalamic amenorrhea. I had osteopenia, as well. And that was when I was 18. So it’s crazy how, like, how much of an effect it can have. And I was, I was like, what you were saying, Kate, my attitude towards it in the beginning, obviously being so young, I was kind of like, Well, whatever I don’t want, I don’t want children right now, it doesn’t matter if I have a period or not, but you know, the osteopenia was and also going through depression, was another big kind of wake up call with all. Okay, so maybe estrogen, maybe there’s a bit more to it than that.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
So, it’s really important.

Kate Callaghan 11:40
Definitely. So in terms of addressing it, number one, I would say, reconsider the recommendation to take estrogen in medication for, now I’m not saying this, I’m not your doctor, I’m not advising, I’m just saying maybe chat to an open-minded doctor, an integrative doctor, if someone has recommended you to take hormone replacement therapy, maybe seek other medical advice from an integrative or functional medicine doctor, a trained medical doctor just a little bit more open-minded, potentially a bit of a band-aid solution with that, and then you know, you’re talking about here, the post-pill amenorrhea. So if you’ve got post-pill amenorrhea now and you go back on the pill, you probably gonna have post-pill amenorrhea when you come off it again. And so you might as well address it now. And as Nat said, go back to our podcast on the pill to talk about how to help support your liver in coming off the pill and to getting things back on track there. But in terms of building estrogen, there are a couple of key things. So we do want to get your menstrual cycle back on track. And we want to basically make sure that your brain is communicating to your ovaries, and we want to reestablish that connection. So when you take the pill, you’re essentially shutting off that communication between your brain and your ovaries, because your brain is going, Oh, well, there’s enough of these sex hormones around even though they’re synthetic but we don’t actually need to communicate to the ovaries to produce sex hormones anymore. So it learns to not have to speak down there. So you need to re-establish that connection by nourishing your hypothalamus, nourishing your pituitary, and you do that by looking after your body with real whole foods. So eating enough good quality proteins, that means proteins are the building blocks of our hormones, as is that really, really good quality fats, and cholesterol are going to provide the base for your hormones, carbs as well. And we’ve spoken about the importance of carbs at the link. But basically, if you don’t have enough carbohydrates, your bodies could, could signal a bit of a starvation state, a stress state as well. And that’s going to cause a decrease in sex hormone production. Not for everyone, I’m not saying a low carb diet is bad. I mean, we don’t need to waffle on about that anymore. We’ve spoken about that. I’m just saying in this situation, they are not your friend. A low carb diet is not your friend. So have some good quality whole carb, whole-food carbs, sweet potato, potato, parsnips, quinoa, rice, whatever floats your boat, fruit. There are so many options, making sure that you’re getting enough calories in as well. So your body doesn’t think you’re in that starvation state and go, Oh, well, reproduction is not really a viable option right now. So we’re just going to send all calories to vital organs, heart, lungs, brain. So focusing on that quality of food, one thing that you do need to think about if you don’t have it going on already, is sufficient body fat. So a lot of our estrogen is produced in our body fat. So if you have inadequate body fat, like I did, back in the day, I had about 13% body fat, which is a bit ridiculous, you’re going to struggle to produce enough estrogen. I’m not saying have too much body fat because that can swing things back the other way. But having sufficient body fat, kind of around that 22% mark, 20-22%. But everyone’s different in terms of what’s going to be working for them but that’s kind of the ideal fertile mark. It can be higher as well, I wouldn’t go any lower than 20%.

Natalie K. Douglas 15:21
Yeah, I agree. What about lifestyle kind of recommendations in terms of you talked about trying to support the HPA axis. So the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, what kind of things should they be looking at implementing or even avoiding if they’re wanting to try and promote a healthy hormonal production.

Kate Callaghan 15:49
Lifestyle will be looking more at stress management. So as I’ve mentioned before, as stress hormones go up from our adrenal glands, our sex hormone production goes down at the level of the adrenal glands, our adrenal glands also produce estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone but they’ll produce your stress hormones at the expense of those sex hormones by a process called the pregnenolone steal. So pregnenolone is the precursor or the starting point to all of these hormones, but your body is going to prioritize stress over reproductive function, because it’s like, oh, my god, there’s a tiger chasing me, or at least that’s the message that it’s getting and it prioritizes life, your life over producing another life if that makes sense.

Natalie K. Douglas 16:34
Pretty smart. If you ask me.

Kate Callaghan 16:36
Yeah, it is smart. But it’s not smart of us to, to kind of ramp that system up all the time.

Natalie K. Douglas
No. Definitely, no.

Kate Callaghan
So yes, so definitely stress management, looking after your adrenal glands. Deep belly breathing is my favorite way to reduce stress levels. I think it’s a nice way to not get too caught up in, Oh, I can’t sit and meditate for an hour so I might as well do nothing.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
If you just start your day with 10 deep belly breaths, then you’re off to a good start. Another thing I like to recommend is the legs at the wall pose at night time for five to 10 minutes. Again, really good way to calm the central nervous system. And get hormones rebalanced and reduce stress levels.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Lifestyle, and here’s the exercise. Chill out a little bit, choose things that are more restorative, rather than hardcore at this point in time.

Natalie K. Douglas 17:26
Yeah, so avoiding a lot of high-intensity training, we’re not saying you can’t, you know, do a couple of sessions a week if that, if that’s what your body is, is used to and you’re finding you’re managing that, but I wouldn’t if you’re trying to get your period back, I’d be hesitant, very hesitant to do more than two sessions of high-intensity training, awake. You’d probably be better off, focusing on things that are more slow and restorative, like getting out in nature for a walk or doing yoga. You know, swimming, swimming’s a really good one, obviously, it’s get starting to get cold in Australia, if that’s where the question was coming from. But you could always swim in a wet suit. I’m totally kidding. I just, that’s what I’m gonna do in winter because I’m really in love with the ocean. But anyway, you can walk and you can still do a little bit of weight training, if you enjoy that, I would just say to again, make sure you’re not doing it every single day. And going, you know, killing yourself in the gym in that way. But you know, a couple of days of lifting heavy stuff is, is fine. And if anything is probably beneficial for you. But the main overall point that we’re trying to make is not to be doing more than is necessary to just be healthy, you’re not trying, like we don’t want you in the gym every single day, it’s much more beneficial for you to not be doing that. We’re not saying don’t move every day, it’s really important to make movement part of your day. But you don’t need to be inside a gym, you know, or pounding the pavement seven days a week.

Kate Callaghan 19:06
Absolutely agree.

Natalie K. Douglas 19:08
And also, sleep, I would add as well. So making sure that you are getting adequate amounts of sleep consistently, not just on the weekend, I’ll play and catch up a consistent routines, the body loves routine, and it loves you know, making sure you’re kind of getting to bed and waking up at relatively the same time each day and trying to aim for seven to nine hours of sleep depending on, depending on you as an individual, everyone’s a bit different in terms of how much sleep that they can, that they can get. And also I find something that’s really helpful is creating a bit of a nighttime routine. And, you know, if you have the luxury of being able to do that, which some of us do, some of us don’t, but trying to, you know, make a time at night where you shut off all work-related things or anything that’s stimulating and you have some kind of routine. So mine is generally, you know, after dinner I won’t do any more work unless I’ve got really pressing deadlines, I will admit that that does happen sometimes. But for because I’ve had such trouble sleeping, I actually have to be really strict with these because if I don’t I find it really affects my sleep and therefore productivity the next day. So switching that off having like time with your family or having chats with your partner or, or friend, or whoever’s living with you. And then I also go for a walk around the block with my, my dog and my mom and my boyfriend, which is really enjoyable actually just before bed and diffusing those essential oils that are really helpful for calming you down and getting to bed and obviously everyone’s nighttime routine is not going to be looked the same as mine. That’s just what happens to work for me most of the time and the point is to create something that works for you and calms you down.

Kate Callaghan 21:08
Beautiful. Speaking of essential oils, have you tried ClaryCalm?

Natalie K. Douglas
Not yet. It’s in my next order.

Kate Callaghan
I can’t try it, because it has clary sage. You know, I don’t really want to go into labor right now because I’m going to 24 weeks along. Yeah, yeah, you know, but it is really good for regulating hormones and balancing estrogen especially the clary sage in it. So the clary sage, it helps to balance estrogen. Lavender obviously is really soothing. Bergamot, do we say burga-mow or burga-mott? What do you think?

Natalie K. Douglas 21:39
I say burga-mott but I’m always pronouncing things wrong. Like you have no idea how retarded I am sometimes. Well, actually, you do actually.

Kate Callaghan 21:45
I like to be a bit fancy, I say bergam-mow. And just like with target, I say, tar-jay. I’m kidding. I’m just taking the piss. So bergamot, I’m going to call it burga-mow, relieve stress and tension, Roman chamomile, is an antispasmodic, it’s calming, it has relaxing properties, cedar wood and it soothes the nervous tension, ylang ylang, it’s going to be just pain from reading it. Brings feelings of self-love, confidence, joy, peace, and balances hormones. Geranium, combats bone problems. And carrot seed can help to regulate menstruation.

Natalie K. Douglas
There you go so.

Kate Callaghan
With little bland there.

Natalie K. Douglas 22:22
That sounds like a good one. So that, you know put some of that on and also, you know, diffuse that lavender to relax because, you know, part of the problem is to like potentially too much stress in the body. But we don’t really know completely what’s going on. The other thing I would potentially just raise as something to be on, like have on her radar is, is there an underlying like another underlying issue like is this in PCOS going on? Because Kate I know that that can also cause amenorrhea.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
So, that’s something to investigate as well.

Kate Callaghan 23:03
Yeah, the differentiating factor there, the key things that I would suggest looking at would be testosterone levels. So if your testosterone levels in your blood are elevated, also insulin, if your insulin is elevated, and that’s a good indication of polycystic ovarian syndrome, especially if you have those other markers of PCOS such as facial hair, acne, inability to lose weight, male pattern hair growth, male pattern balding, male pattern balding.

Natalie K. Douglas 23:33
Yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha. And we will actually, we might do a podcast on PCOS sometime in the future as well, because it is definitely worth the podcast in and of itself, because it’s very well, it’s a lot of people or more and more people are being diagnosed to that both correctly and incorrectly. So I think it would be something that we can talk about in the future. But hopefully, that’s a few ideas for our listener that wrote that question in. One other thing, I would just bring up for her as well is thinking about supplementation. And it’s a bit difficult for us to make specific supplementation recommendations and I wouldn’t advise that she starts taking any of these or anyone starts taking any of these without first consulting with a healthcare practitioner because it’s important to make sure they’re being safely prescribed and that they are actually right for you, but probably a few of my favorites for balancing hormones or just restoring, restoring periods and whatnot is zinc. I really love zinc. I also love B6 and magnesium. In terms of herbs, I find biotics can be really helpful, but that is something that you need to work with a healthcare practitioner on because there are some contraindications for biotics and I also actually had a lot of success using Tribulus for myself when I had hypothalamic amenorrhea, but again, not necessarily the right choice for everyone. So just making sure that you’re working with a practitioner on that. Kate, did you have any additional ones that I didn’t mention that you think of for period health?

Kate Callaghan
Yeah, so the, the key ones that I love to use and recommend and one that’s been researched specifically for hypothalamic amenorrhea is acetyl-l-carnitine and this is one that helps to nourish the mitochondria of the ovaries so the energy has at the ovaries and helps with the production of luteinizing hormone which will then help with ovulation and you need to ovulate to produce healthy levels of estrogen really.

Kate Callaghan 25:49
Did you take Tribulus to boost your testosterone?

Natalie K. Douglas 25:51
I did, yes, because mine was low as well.

Kate Callaghan 25:54
Yeah, so that’s, that’s the key marker of hypothalamic amenorrhea versus PCOS is low testosterone. Do you know what I took?

Natalie K. Douglas 26:02
What did you take? Oh did you take, did you eat testicles, like bulls testicles, or something? Did you? Am I right?

Kate Callaghan 26:11
I didn’t fry them up? They’re encapsulated. They’re encapsulated. It was a doctor, doctor Ron testicle.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, that’s so funny.

Kate Callaghan
It was grass-fed bulls balls, all right?

Natalie K. Douglas 26:25
But that really nourished your dry vagina?

Kate Callaghan 26:30
It did. Do you know it’s the naturopath that put me put me on it. Shout out to Angela Hywood in Sydney, she’s amazing. She, she was telling me about it. I’ve said, you want me to have what? And she told me about it, and she had, she had an 80-year-old woman coming a little while before she saw me who had low libido. Keep trying, still have sex today but good onto her. Anyway, she got put on this this testicle to boost her libido and her testosterone and came back a week or two later and said how amazing it was and how she got her libido back and basically was having some fun in the sack for 80 years old.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:10
Wow. Wow. There you go. Dr. Ron’s bulls balls if anyone wants some.

Kate Callaghan 27:19
I do have a friend, come over and see them on my shelf, which is, what? What is this?

Natalie K. Douglas 27:26
Oh man, the things that we’ve done for our health. I’ve done some strange things too.

Kate Callaghan 27:31
What’s the strangest thing you’ve done?

Natalie K. Douglas 27:35
The strangest but one that really pops out was, I gave, oh, my mom helped me give, like give myself a coffee enema and that was like, it was really weird sensation. And it was really like my mom’s not into health or anything like that, really. But she’s used to just my quirkiness. And I’m just like, Hey, Mom, I need you to come and stick this tube up my bomb with the coffee. And she’s like what? Okay, and just comes down, and mom does it.

Kate Callaghan
Did you feel better after?

Natalie K. Douglas
I did, because everything just evacuated.

Kate Callaghan
Oh, my God.

Natalie K. Douglas
But, I just, it was I had a parasite at that time. So like any kind of, and I was chronically constipated, so any kind of clearing was like Christmas. It was really quite enjoyable.

Kate Callaghan 28:21
Oh, wow. I had a colonic once and it was horrible.

Natalie K. Douglas 28:24
Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend them unless you really need them. I don’t, I’m not actually of the school of thought that regular colonics are a good idea. I actually think that they’re probably not. I think they’re more so good if you’re trying to eradicate some kind of parasite or overgrowth but other than that, I think there’s better ways to nourish your gut.

Kate Callaghan 28:46
Yeah, definitely. I have a blab about it in my book, actually.

Natalie K. Douglas 28:52
Yeah. I’ll think of next week. I’ll, I’ll think of some other weird stuff I’ve done because there’s definitely more than just to giving myself the coffee enema with the assistance of my mom I know about this. Yeah, it is up there. I’ve got no filter and no shame. So I will share whatever comes to mind.

Kate Callaghan 29:11
Well, we know that after. So don’t thinking about the charting.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:16
I’m actually like a really together person just in case anyone’s listening and thinks that.

Kate Callaghan 29:23
She’s really naughty actually.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:24
That I’m absolutely off my chops. I’m actually pretty normal most of the time, I’m just really clumsy. Anyway, so, we are coming up to our 30-minute podcast mark. So we will start to wrap up. So please do continue to email questions through if you have them because as you can see, we are happy to talk about them and give you some information. And also make sure that you check out the doTERRA essential oils that we we’re talking about. So you can do that via either Kate’s website or my website. Both of, both of them will have a link to do. Oh, excuse me, doTERRA on there. You can also check out many of Kate’s post on hypothalamic amenorrhea, and her awesome e-book, and it’s also addressed in her hardcopy book. And also your e-course, Kate, is there any information on your online course coming up? Or is it a bit on hold because of the whole growing a baby thing.

Kate Callaghan 30:29
So it was going to be on hold. But I think I’m going to run one more course starting in May, which is in three weeks. So that’ll be the last one for the foreseeable future. Because as I’ve said, I’m having a small human in July, and going on maternity leave and want to have time to do a lot of things. So if anyone is interested, this is the time to do it. Because I’m not sure when I’m gonna run it again.

Natalie K. Douglas 30:53
Awesome. Alright, well, jump on that and I will provide a link to Kate’s website in case anyone hasn’t already got it saved and they can just jump on to that and register their interest or so that they don’t miss out. So Kate, have a lovely afternoon and fingers crossed that you get a brilliant sleep tonight.

Kate Callaghan
Oh, yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
I’m dreaming of it now.

Kate Callaghan 31:23
It’s good while it lasts. Thank you 4:30

Natalie K. Douglas 31:26
There you go. All right. Well, have a lovely day and I’ll talk to you soon.

Kate Callaghan 31:29
Thanks, Nat. You too.

Natalie K. Douglas
Bye.

Kate Callaghan
Bye.