In Episode 11 of The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast, Natalie Douglas and Kate Callaghan discuss how to become a holistic nutritionist or holistic dietitian.

• Nat & Kate’s Updates. Hint: Kates is super exciting!
• Nat elaborates a little on her new book Healing Digestive Discomfort and how it can help you if you have IBS.
• Our personal journey to become Holistic Dietitians
• Discussion and advice on the path to take if you would like to be doing what we are doing. Including the Pro’s and Con’s of going down the University path.
• Updates on Kate’s Healing Hypothalamic Amenorrhea Program

• Are you looking for a free guide that shows you the exact steps to starting and running your own online health practitioner business? Good news – I’ve created that for you! Take a look here (no email required).

Natalie K. Douglas 0:02
Hello and welcome to The Holistic Nutritionists Podcast. My name is Natalie Bourke, Holistic Dietitian, and Nutritionist from HealthByWholeFoods.com.au. And with me, I have The Holistic Nutritionist, Kate Callaghan, from TheHolisticNutritionist.com. How are you, Kate?

Kate Callaghan 0:19
I am fabulous. Thanks, Nat. How are you?

Natalie K. Douglas 0:21
I’m not too bad. It’s pretty hot again in Sydney, which is kind of nice when you’re outside at the beach, which I’m not, but I will be at some stage.

Kate Callaghan 0:33
I didn’t want to know that. It’s warm here but it’s like gale-force winds. So you can sit behind the window and go it’s nice out there. If you go outside you get blown away.

Natalie K. Douglas 0:44
Yeah, right. That’s not good. Fun fact, my partner is actually like, scared of the wind. Just in case anyone wanted to know or everyone wanted to know. It’s like he gets creeped out when it’s windy. And I’m sure I’ve just like completely ruined these like masculinity to the interwebs now but just to let you know that.

Kate Callaghan 1:04
Yeah. I get stirred up by.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:06
Yeah, I guess that’s like, it’s just stuff keeps like being blown around and then there’s noises behind you. And it’s all yeah, I personally, last night while walking the dog. And thing that scared me was this some hooligan like with his head out the window yelling out like profanities about some lady named Beck and just scared me. My heart jumped and it was like, eight o’clock at night and nobody needs their cortisol to jump that high at that time. I was very, most upset.

Kate Callaghan 1:37
That’s for sure for you.

Natalie K. Douglas 1:38
I know, right? I really should just wrap myself in bubble wrap and wear EMOPS when I walk outside. I already walk the streets in like my dressing gown, so I probably shouldn’t do that. It’s true. I know. I know. It’s really bad. I should stop but it’s not. It’s just so comfortable and warm.

Kate Callaghan 2:00
You don’t even do my teeny tiny tiny town of 5000 people.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes.

Kate Callaghan
There’s like a tiny cul de sac when no one goes past. Like yeah, I’m gotta go outside.

Natalie K. Douglas 2:16
Oh, man, you gotta try it. It’s pretty liberating.

Kate Callaghan
No.

Natalie K. Douglas
No, just stick with the normal clothes. Anyway, in other news, how are you? Anything significant to report?

Kate Callaghan 2:29
Well, as you know, and as you’ve known for a while, I am expecting another mini human to enter my life in about six months’ time.

Natalie K. Douglas 2:46
Oh, yeah. That’s very exciting. I’m very very excited for you. And I have been, it’ll be all over, all over again excited? Excited all over again even.

Kate Callaghan 2:55
Thanks. So, I have quite a little belly right now. It’s I’m kind of about the size that I was when I was 20 weeks or more last time. It’s just really popped out. Which they do say happens in the second pregnancy but I think it’s also to do with the fact that I had diastasis recti in my first pregnancy which is where you’re nothing to do with my rectum.

Natalie K. Douglas
Thanks for clearing that up.

Kate Callaghan
It’s the way your abs split. Like they split down the middle. So your rectus abdominis actually split down the middle. So it’s kind of weird when you lie down in into like a crunches sit up you can actually feel a gap and feel down into your organs it’s gross.

Natalie K. Douglas 3:35
That is really strange. In fact, that’s almost a strangers me walking in the streets in my dressing gown. So it looks like we’re even now.

Kate Callaghan 3:45
I have no control of abs my splitting. Thank you very much.

Natalie K. Douglas 3:48
Oh, I’m just a victim to what feels good so.

Kate Callaghan 3:52
Weirdo.

Natalie K. Douglas
It’s true.

Kate Callaghan
And what news with you? Let’s move on from the dressing gowns. What news with you?

Natalie K. Douglas 3:58
Well, I’ve just released my e-book finally. So it’s called Healing Digestive Discomfort and it is on sale on my website right now. And that’s been really exciting for me. So that’s my first paid e-book that I’ve released and it has all my thoughts and knowledge and experience on treating different digestive issues. So things like FODMAP sensitivity, food intolerances, SIBO, parasites, candida, leaky gut, all these kind of things that could be causing you to have an irritable bowel. I have listed them out and gone through how to get diagnosed because I think a lot of people with gut issues get really just like confused and go on a bit of a awhile, what’s that called thing where you go around and chasing your tail, there was something else I was thinking about but I got distracted because I looked outside. Anyway, chasing their tails to try and find out what exactly is causing all their gut issues. And they end up with a diagnosis of IBS. And that’s Irritable Bowel Syndrome for anyone who’s not familiar with that abbreviation. And I just don’t believe that IBS is a diagnosis. I believe it’s a symptom of something else going on. And I believe that it’s totally treatable. And I think that people just need to know. Okay, so what are the main symptoms of each particular underlying cause to my IBS? And how do I actually treat that and helping them find those resources, in order to get to the bottom of it and get out of that horrible horrible place where you know, you’re feeling bloated and constipated, or then you have diarrhea, or you’re gassy, or all these type of things. Because it does really affect the quality of your life. And I know that because I had them, have gut issues for so many years and it just makes you feel horrible.

Kate Callaghan 5:55
That’s awesome.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes.

Kate Callaghan
Yes. Your book.

Natalie K. Douglas 5:58
Thank you. Yes. So that’s the available and if you need to find it it’s been advertised on all my social media challenges and, challenges? Channels. And it’s also available directly from the website.

Kate Callaghan 6:13
Fantastic.

Natalie K. Douglas 6:14
So today, everybody, we decided that we would talk about how to become a holistic nutritionist or dietitian or practitioner, because it’s a question that we get a lot in terms of, how do we actually, I guess, get to where we are? And how, what do we think is the best path there as well? Because that’s, I know, Kate, you get that question a lot. And I have definitely had inquiries in the past but I think it’s a really good idea that we share maybe a bit of our journey. And also, just some general advice if people want to do something similar, or maybe some alternate options, because I know I’ve, I’ve had people ask, well, would you do it differently? And I’ve come up with an answer, but.

Kate Callaghan 7:02
We should answer it at the end.

Natalie K. Douglas 7:04
Yes, we will. So Kate, let’s start with you. We do kind of have similar journeys but let’s start with you. And do you want to tell us a bit about your path to like doing what you’re doing today?

Kate Callaghan 7:17
Sure. And we don’t need to go back as far as why I got into nutrition because that could take forever but I worked in PR before I worked in nutrition. In the beauty industry, actually. I was a beauty publicist, for anyone who cares. Not like natural organic skincare, it was like full of toxins but smells are really good skincare stuff. The names you would know it. Anyway. Um, so I, like you Nat, studied Nutrition and Dietetics at university. So it was a four-year degree, very very mainstream. So the way my brain works, I kind of want go into things, choosing the best thing that I can, potentially the hardest, potentially most highest qualification thing that I can do because I think that will be the best and have the best outcomes. That’s the way my brain works. And it’s not always the case. And I know it sounds probably, or I don’t know maybe arrogant or something like that. But that’s how my brain used to work like, well, that’s the highest qualification you can get in nutrition. So I should go and do Dietetics and become a dietitian, still lived in Sydney when I went travel down to Waterloo every day or every second day to go and study it. And, and so basically dietetics it’s, well, it’s nutrition, you come as a nutritionist, but you come out as a dietitian as well. The difference between just being a nutritionist. I don’t even like to say, just nutritionist, because that’s not very nice. But the difference between being a dietitian and nutritionist is, well, you have an extra year or two of study at university and you’re also qualified to work in hospitals with chronic diseases, so things like cancer, liver disease, diabetes, obesity, all sorts of chronic diseases, eating disorders, although nutritional something can work with eating disorders, you just need to be a little more careful and you’re covered by health funds like Medicare and private health funds. So that’s kind of the difference. You can work with a broad range and work in hospitals if you want to. You speak to dietitians are adamant about being dietitians will probably say there’s more difference than that but that’s currently my take.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes. Same.

Kate Callaghan
So I went into the four-year degree and studied my butt off. I worked really, really, really, really hard. Again, that was kind of my personality, very much type A personality, very much brought up that grades were really important. So I studied really hard and got really good grades, and it ended up passing with first-class honors and got quite a few awards with the Dean’s merit list. Which is I’m not boasting about that, it’s, the reason why I bring it up is because I get a lot of people saying, and we’ll come back to this as well. And the thing that you know, they want to go to university and they want to do Dietetics but they’re turned off by chemistry, so maybe they won’t, or they’ll just kind of do what they can to get through chemistry or biochemistry. And even in university people will say, you know, please get degrees. With something like Nutrition with Dietetics, I disagree on that because I think you should have a solid understanding of biochemistry and anatomy and physiology. So you can then read and understand the research and also work out what is actually appropriate for the human body in terms of food. Because what you would find in dietetics is there’s a bit of a mismatch in terms of what biochemistry says we should be eating, and what anatomy and physiology says that would work well for our body, and what the government suggestion say we should be eating. So dietetics does involve going through, you know, the Healthy Food Guide, Australian guide to healthy eating, which is based in based on the USDA guidelines, very, very, very mainstream. You know, food pyramid style that’s changed, obviously, but yeah, very mainstream and so what I had to do and what Nat had to do as well, you kind of have to just go with the flow on that. Do the hard work and pass your exam. So we had to do that. It was a lot of stuff that I did not agree with, but I had to pretend that I did, because I had exams to pass and you know, that would say, for example, if you have a weight-loss client. This is a very simplistic, should they be eating a high fat or low-fat diet? And obviously, you would have to say they have to be eating a low-fat diet because fat makes you fat, which is not what I agree with it.

Natalie K. Douglas
Obviously, Kate. Gosh.

Kate Callaghan
Definitely didn’t agree with.

Natalie K. Douglas
Dietetics 101.

Kate Callaghan
Exactly. And cholesterol, you should not be eating eggs.

Natalie K. Douglas
No.

Kate Callaghan
All saturated fat, saturated fats are the devil. So I, in the middle of my university degree, I went quite heavily down the, the Paleo Diet path which is at odds with dietetics. And I was like staunch paleo.

Natalie K. Douglas 12:34
She was so scary. She used to come into a tribal dance at lunchtime. I’m totally kidding. I wish you did though.

Kate Callaghan 12:41
But I was very outspoken and probably to the point of annoying and rude if I look back at it now. And so, I would argue with the lecturers when they would say things. I would disagree with and say, you know, what about this and bring out my own research and I probably should have just sat there and held my tongue, but I, I felt the moral duty to speak out about how fat’s not the devil. Anyway, I was silenced after our lip quite literally silenced my dietetics.

Natalie K. Douglas
What do we call her?

Kate Callaghan
I don’t know what was she? Our organizer?

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
The organizer of the degree, she basically called me and said, stop asking questions. Like quite literally, she called me and said, stop asking questions. You know, you’re not a dietitian yet you don’t know, stop asking questions.

Natalie K. Douglas 13:28
To your defense, a lot of the questions you asked in the research you brought up, I was sitting there being like, yeah, what she said just really. Silently, and in the corner.

Kate Callaghan 13:36
Yeah. I got in trouble. It was actually quite upsetting.

Natalie K. Douglas
It would have been because if you’re not, you’re not out to hurt anyone. You would just genuinely asking, well, hey, have you heard of this? And you know, that doesn’t sound quite right. So I don’t blame you for speaking up and asking those questions.

Kate Callaghan 13:55
Caitlin, want to hide in her shoes.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yes.

Kate Callaghan
So Lindsay, as well. Anyway, that was me. And I tweeted about being silent the next day and mentioned Robb Wolf, and he retweeted to his multitude.

Natalie K. Douglas
Well, that’s awesome. It’s totally worth it then.

Kate Callaghan
No, I got in more trouble. Anyway, so I graduated with mainstream Dietetic blah, blah, blah. But I didn’t agree with a lot of it. So I didn’t want to work in a hospital. And it’s interesting as working in a hospital can be that wasn’t my path because I didn’t agree with a lot of the guidelines. I didn’t want to be affiliated with them. So I went down the path of private practice, and then became more of a holistic practitioner doing my own research, reading textbooks, going and attending webinars, going to events and things, speaking to other practitioners, and reading up on blogs that reputable blogs and podcasts like Robb Wolf and Chris Kresser. And just people who I really knew and trusted and Chris Masterjohn, people that really read the research and know what they’re talking about. And then I incorporated more of my own life experiences as well that I use to help me through my journey, and more of that holistic practice I serve but not just food, everything else around it. And I continue to do that today. So it’s kind of an ongoing process with nutrition, you need to always be learning and health always learning. So, still learning and still changing if that needs to happen, and that’s how I made it here.

Natalie K. Douglas 15:30
Awesome. Yeah. And I think, our stories are very, very similar in terms of our journey there. Like we did go to through uni together. So through that four-year degree together, I didn’t do anything before dietetics, I just went straight from high school to uni and did dietetics. And for the first half of the degree, I was still thought down that mainstream path. And then like, Kate I’d started to change for me about about halfway through the degree and I disagreed with a lot of the things. I was hearing, it didn’t make sense to me given the research that I was reading at the time. And also, given the kind of experiences with treating conditions that we were talking about, that I happen to have as well. It didn’t make sense that these recommendations weren’t working, or even just with people I knew who were asking me or hey, how do I, for example, weight loss is an easy example, as we used before, but how do I lose weight and telling these people to do that, and it not working for them? And so yeah, I started to think differently as well. And I do, I do think that the first kind of half of the dietetics degree is probably quite similar to a natural medicine type degree. In that, you all are just learning the basics of the human body and it’s not so influenced by the government organizations, and food industry, and all those different things that come into play when you start getting further down the degree. So in the first kind of half-ish, you’re more learning about chemistry, about biochemistry, about physiology, and that forms the basis of like Kate said, being able to be independent in your thinking and look at the research and make your own decisions. And the reason why, a question I get a lot is, well, you know, why didn’t you. Like once you realize what they were teaching you wasn’t quite right, why did you keep going into the degree? Why don’t you go and do natural medicine instead? Where you thought there was more solid information to go off? And my answer to that is because I was already halfway through a degree. And because I thought, you know, if I finish this degree, and I get this qualification, then I have the power to change the way at least one dietitian, I mean me, treats people and get different results, different results. And really, the end goal was to make people healthy. And I needed the degree in order to, yes, have that foundational knowledge. But also just to be able to practice what I’ve learnt. And essentially, it gave me a qualification to be able to practice what I had learnt in the first half of the degree in terms of the stuff that wasn’t quite biased, and then choose not to apply a lot of the things that I disagreed with and with what the research disagreed with. And like Kate, did a lot of my own research by reading papers, by going to different symposiums and seminars and all these types of things that you would do anyway for professional development. And always being open to learning more and also always being open to being wrong. Another question I get a lot is, if I had my time over again, would I do something like naturopathy or nutrition through college. Like through a natural health college, instead of doing a dietetics degree. And up until probably about a year ago, I probably would have said no, because I am kind of where I want to be in terms of practicing with patients. And I, you know, I know how to read the research, and I know how to acquire more knowledge in that way. However, sometimes it’s really hard for me because I go back and forth. And in one way I do, if I had, if I was to start my time over again, I potentially would go through and do nutritional medicine or naturopathy, or both, even just because I actually find the way that that degree has is taught or the more holistic approach it takes much. I guess, more accurate, that I’m sure like, I haven’t been through the degree, but just from talking to people who haven’t, and, you know, listening to what they’re being taught and whatnot, there are, there are still probably many things that maybe I don’t agree with. But for the most part, I would say that it is taught better than nutrition and dietetics through uni in my opinion. And I also, I do actually find herbal medicine quite interesting, which is another reason why, if I had my time over, I would probably go and do something like that. However, I am saying that I am going to go back to college part-time and study naturopathy this year, so I’m not really missing out. But you ought to know. Kate, what are your thoughts? Have you gone back and forth on that kind of question or do you just?

Kate Callaghan 20:58
I don’t regret doing it. I think if I did have my time, again, I’d maybe just to do the first three nutrition component. Because I think it gives you a really solid understanding of science and research. And I think the University, the government universities, have more facilities available than to other colleges and I don’t know this from experience, I could be wrong, and someone tell me if I’m wrong, but you know, we got to work in the cadaver labs with, with bodies, and actually, and this is going to gross some people out. But you know, we got to dissect bodies, and actually look and see where things were, and what you know, the stomach looks like, and what intestines look like, and what different pathologies look like. And it was so so fascinating. And we got taught how to read, we get taught statistics, which was frickin horrible.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, my goodness.

Kate Callaghan
But you know, but it sets you up to be able to read the research, and we had access to all these journals. So we could go straight in and actually search for the information ourselves and then know how to pull it apart. And then know how to apply it to our solid understanding of biochemistry, and anatomy, and physiology, but then I would probably go into naturopathy or yeah functional medicine, nutritional medicine, after that. And I may still do that in the future, after, when I get some sort of a life back after having.

Natalie K. Douglas
About 10 or 20 years? I’m just kidding.

Kate Callaghan
I’m hoping like five or six when I go to school.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
Some people laughed at me when I say that. But um, I would I would add that caveat if someone’s thinking of, you know, doing dietetics and then going down into the naturopathy route. If you do dietetics, and then you become registered with, say, the Dietitian’s Association of Australia, they will take issue with you practicing naturopathy and probably try and take your accreditation of you. I’ve had the issues with the DAA because they don’t agree with me. And I didn’t agree with them. And that’s why I’m not a part of the DAA anymore. And I don’t want to be a part of the DAA. But just to be mindful that dietitians in that mainstream. If they’re a dietitian, they’re definitely not a naturopath most of the time.

Natalie K. Douglas 23:08
Yeah, I agree with that. And I’ve had similar experience or similar, I have similar, like thoughts around that as well in terms of they, what they promote and whatnot. And I was with them for a period of time but I’m not anymore out of my own choice. But yeah, look, I think that’s a really sensible suggestion in terms of doing the Bachelor of you know Nutrition, and then going or Bachelor of Science major in Nutrition, and then going on to do something like naturopathy. I think that’s a good balance between the two because I think you’re really right in that, we were given a lot of really good opportunities and a lot of exposure to yeah, the kind of things that you mentioned before, and that was really helpful. And it was like, it was really hard. Like, I reckon the degree was the hardest at the beginning. But for people who are like, oh, my goodness, chemistry, I can’t do it, it’s so scary, and it’s quite overwhelming for you. I would just say like, you really can do anything you put your mind to. And I didn’t, like, I didn’t do chemistry in high school at all in terms of like through my HSC or anything. I didn’t do the bridging course that they recommend but I did study my ass off when I got to uni, in chemistry in particular, to understand it and you can get through it. I think that if you apply yourself to anything, you’re able to get through it. And usually, there are lots of resources available to you in order to help you get through that as well. But in saying that there’s, you still have to do chemistry if you, and biochemistry, if you do it through a natural health organization as well. So just keep that in mind. You can’t escape it, because biochemistry and chemistry is part of nutrition and how the body works. And as Kate said, it is really important to understand what you’re learning in those subjects because it does make things make sense later on in the degree. And also, it helps you become more of an independent thinker and be able to analyze research and results and data and all that kind of stuff later on in the degree when things start to get a bit more that way. So I do I do think that university degrees have the advantage but also that you can’t really escape biochemistry.

Kate Callaghan 25:40
I read the textbook for chemistry textbook before I started, and Aaron always face me out about it.

Natalie K. Douglas 25:45
Oh yeah, I used to at lunchtime, I used to take it and go to the library and just study all my lunch time. Like, I didn’t hang out with anyone. I just and just everyone, you don’t have to do that I was a big fat nerd. I used to do that and on the train there which was like an hour and on the train back which I was like an hour. So and it was because it didn’t come naturally to me that like with with that stuff. It did take understanding it but it’s one of those things when you you learn one concept and it feels like forever until you understand it but then you understand it and it’s like the simplest thing in the world. So like persist with it and don’t let yourself fall behind in terms of like, don’t be like, oh, I’ll just listen to all this. And then I’ll start studying when it’s, you know, a week or two away from the tests, like learn as you go because it makes it so much easier.

Kate Callaghan 26:37
Yeah, definitely. There were times where I wanted to stab myself in the eye with a pencil in chemistry.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, yeah, totally.

Kate Callaghan
Through too many tantrums because I didn’t understand it.

Natalie K. Douglas
Oh, same. Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
You get that YouTube helps a lot actually.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
When different people explaining things. So if you just Google what you what you’re searching for in, in chemistry, that’s where YouTube it. They’ll be all these different tutorials and listen to multiple once, you’re going to get them from all different perspectives, individually it’ll quick.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:03
Yeah. So hopefully that helped some people because it’s hard. Like we can’t tell you what to do, or we can tell you is what our experience is or has been, and what we feel like we got from our degree and maybe what we feel like we missed out on but you know, I’m with you, Kate. I don’t regret anything. And I think there’s a lot that. Like, there’s a lot offered from both degrees. It’s just more about what resonates more with you. And yeah, speak to different people and their experiences and just follow your instincts in that regard. The biggest favor you can do for yourself is to understand the basics. Be an independent learner and an open-minded thinker. And don’t be afraid to be wrong.

Kate Callaghan 27:51
And know what you want to do at the end of it. If you don’t want to work in hospitals then probably don’t need as a dietitian.

Natalie K. Douglas 27:56
Yeah, I agree. Hospital. Yeah, I didn’t.

Kate Callaghan 27:59
That might be simplistic. I’m gonna get hounded.

Natalie K. Douglas 28:04
Yeah, you are. You’re gonna get bounty hunter. I don’t actually know what that means. Sorry. I just said it. Okay, well, everybody. It’s coming up to the end. So, I think we pretty much gave our important updates at the beginning. Like, I spoke about my book, which you can find online. But Kate, did you want to just give everyone a quick update on your Healing Hypothalamic Amenorrhea course. How’s that going in terms of, is it open yet?

Kate Callaghan 28:36
It’s not open yet. I’m opening up next Monday. I think that’s the 23rd of January. So open it up for enrollments that week, it will only be open it for enrollments for a week. If that, last time I had to close the cut early because it was full and I do cap it because I like to give each participant as much individual attention as I possibly can and I just can’t do with huge numbers. So if you’re thinking of doing it do not delay, get in early otherwise you may miss out and need to wait another however long.

Natalie K. Douglas
Yeah.

Kate Callaghan
It’s like this pregnant lazy mama to do another.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:15
Awesome. Alright, well, you’re anything but lazy but we’ll just move on

Kate Callaghan
Three on Christmas Day, Three.

Natalie K. Douglas 29:22
Oh, that’s pretty good.

Kate Callaghan
Yeah.

Natalie K. Douglas
That is very impressive. Anyway, with that all said in all seriousness, do keep an eye on Kate’s social media channels because that is definitely something you don’t want to miss out on if you’re struggling with hypothalamic amenorrhea. So, I’m sure she’ll keep you posted on there. And apart from that, I hope everyone has a lovely day and we will chat to you all again in a couple of weeks’ time. Have a good day to you Kate. Bye.

Kate Callaghan 29:52
You too, Nat. Bye.